[MRKEWL1]

Is it normal for water to seep out of ground while doing laundry? My washer drain overflows, so I duct taped the pipe. Don't have a ladder to reach roof or a snake long enough to go from there. Already ran a 1/2" auger down the drain, but I think its down further on the main line. I have 2 cleanouts on the side of house, took the caps off and laundry water comes out of one pretty good, so I think the partial clog is after that, not sure. This house was built around 79, but I don't know what has changed or what issues plumbing-wise since.

[ballengerb1]

I would have the tank pumped and the field inspected by a pro. Your system is almost 30 years old and may have failed. Have you ever pumped the tank before? Surface water is a very bad and unhealthy sign.

[MRKEWL1]

I would have the tank pumped and the field inspected by a pro. Your system is almost 30 years old and may have failed. Have you ever pumped the tank before? Surface water is a very bad and unhealthy sign.

Actually I'm not really sure when this house was built, but there is a slab of concrete with family hand prints and 1997 in it. Its probably older than that though. I'm not sure of when the tank was last pumped either, but we have had quite a bit of rain since we moved here last month.
A plumber ran the main line through the cleanout, which is 25 feet or so from the tank. He said that was either our septic tank or a grey water storage tank. He ran the snake 75 feet and said it was probably going into the tank, and said my lines are clear. The problem is either the tank is full or the field lines are clogged.
I found the inspection access for the tank, opened it and found that it was nearly full. It didn't stink like I had thought it would. Is all that water keeping the septic smell down? They are coming to pump the tank in the morning, hopefully fix the problem.
This is our first time living with a septic tank. Wouldn't the tank being that full also cause other drainage issues in the house and not just the washer?

Thank you for the info,
Rich

[scirocco70]

A septic tank is always "full"..

It is full of water, and whatever stuff was in the water, that comes out of your house... When the water enters the tank, the solids settle to the bottom, and the light stuff (fat/oil, soap scum etc) floats to the top. This happens pretty well in a clean tank, since there is very little actual water movement in the tank, because it is large... think of it as a giant sediment-settling tank. Whenever water comes in one end of the tank, the same volume of water goes out the other end of the tank, into your drainage field where is is absorbed by the ground. It is very important that the water that goes out of the tank be "clear" water, i.e. no particles or suspended solids or anything. It is not clean water, but it needs to be only liquid.


The solid waste that enters the tank and settles to the bottom is worked on by bacterial action, and the total volume is reduced drastically, sometimes to as little as 1/100 of the original size. But, there is some leftover residue. This residue (or sludge) build up over time, and can significantly decrease the total volume of the tank, eventually. This is known as a "full septic tank" and it is very important to have the tank pumped to remove the sludge before this happens. The time between pumping depends on how much water and solids you put into the tank, depending on factors like how many people live there, what kind of clothes washer you use, if you have a separate greywater system (not common around here in MD) and how much you use a kitchen-sink garbage disposal.

Another important point is that on a septic tank you need to be careful about what you put into it... anti-bacterial soaps are the worst, as the triclosan in them stays active for a long time, killing bacteria... and as mentioned it is the bacteria that "eat" the solid wastes for you. Even a lot of toothpaste these days has triclosan in it, and anything labeled "anti-bacterial" is very bad for your septic system. As a general rule, you should only put stuff into the septic system that you have eaten first, or at least COULD have eaten first. That means using a lot of harsh household cleaners should be on your list of do-not-do as well. Anything that will kill/upset the bacterial action in the tank should be avoided if you can.. within reason of course. A little bit of ammonia or soap won't hurt it, and even bleach used sparingly can be OK.

What happens when there's too much sludge in the tank is that the free-water volume is reduced so that there's not enough "dwell time" for new water entering the tank to have all of the solids settle out (and lipids float up to the scum layer). That means that the water that goes OUT of the tank into your drainage field will have these particles in it. Those particles (especially the greasy ones) will rapidly "plug up" the soil around the pipes in your drainage field, making it unable to absorb water anymore. When that happens, you'll start to see water puddling on the ground over the drainage field after using the septic system, most often when there's large inputs of water like showering or using the clothes washer.

Unfortunately, that appears to be what's happened to your system... the only fix is to install a new drainage field (if you have the space) or to get some earthmoving equipment in and replace all the clogged dirt/soil in your current drainfield and replace it.

Here's some further reading, and Google will give you lots and lots of information on septic systems.

Septic Systems A to Z Maintenance

Septic System Maintenance, AEX-740-01


Good luck!
~aaron


.

[MRKEWL1]

A septic tank is always "full"..

It is full of water, and whatever stuff was in the water, that comes out of your house... When the water enters the tank, the solids settle to the bottom, and the light stuff (fat/oil, soap scum etc) floats to the top. This happens pretty well in a clean tank, since there is very little actual water movement in the tank, because it is large... think of it as a giant sediment-settling tank. Whenever water comes in one end of the tank, the same volume of water goes out the other end of the tank, into your drainage field where is is absorbed by the ground. It is very important that the water that goes out of the tank be "clear" water, ie no particles or suspended solids or anything. It is not clean water, but it needs to be only liquid.


The solid waste that enters the tank and settles to the bottom is worked on by bacterial action, and the total volume is reduced drastically, sometimes to as little as 1/100 of the original size. But, there is some leftover residue. This residue (or sludge) build up over time, and can significantly decrease the total volume of the tank, eventually. This is known as a "full septic tank" and it is very important to have the tank pumped to remove the sludge before this happens. The time between pumping depends on how much water and solids you put into the tank, depending on factors like how many people live there, what kind of clothes washer you use, if you have a separate greywater system (not common around here in MD) and how much you use a kitchen-sink garbage disposal.

Another important point is that on a septic tank you need to be careful about what you put into it... anti-bacterial soaps are the worst, as the triclosan in them stays active for a long time, killing bacteria... and as mentioned it is the bacteria that "eat" the solid wastes for you. Even a lot of toothpaste these days has triclosan in it, and anything labeled "anti-bacterial" is very bad for your septic system. As a general rule, you should only put stuff into the septic system that you have eaten first, or at least COULD have eaten first. That means using a lot of harsh household cleaners should be on your list of do-not-do as well. Anything that will kill/upset the bacterial action in the tank should be avoided if you can.. within reason of course. A little bit of ammonia or soap won't hurt it, and even bleach used sparingly can be OK.

What happens when there's too much sludge in the tank is that the free-water volume is reduced so that there's not enough "dwell time" for new water entering the tank to have all of the solids settle out (and lipids float up to the scum layer). That means that the water that goes OUT of the tank into your drainage field will have these particles in it. Those particles (especially the greasy ones) will rapidly "plug up" the soil around the pipes in your drainage field, making it unable to absorb water anymore. When that happens, you'll start to see water puddling on the ground over the drainage field after using the septic system, most often when there's large inputs of water like showering or using the clothes washer.

Unfortunately, that appears to be what's happened to your system..... the only fix is to install a new drainage field (if you have the space) or to get some earthmoving equipment in and replace all the clogged dirt/soil in your current drainfield and replace it.

Here's some further reading, and Google will give you lots and lots of information on septic systems.

Septic Systems A to Z Maintenance

Septic System Maintenance, AEX-740-01


good luck!
~aaron


.

Thank you so much for the info. Sorry for not replying sooner been working a lot. Septic guys pumped the tanks, one 500 gallon septic and one 500 gal grey water tank, yes 2 separate tanks which were both very full. When they pumped the grey water, the outlet baffle pipe which was cracked, fell off and they suggested that I replace it. Also, once that tank was empty, they showed me what was a huge chunk of an old concrete tank cover in the bottom of the tank. They told me that would just create more sludge on the bottom and take up room in the grey water tank, and should have it removed.

I figured out that the washer, kitchen and both showers have a separate main to the grey water tank, and the bathrooms (sinks/toilets) drain to the septic main to the septic tank. I still have the duct tape on the washer drain hose LOL, haven't dared to take it off to see if it still overflows, but it drains fine so far. Where I saw the water seeping from the ground is probably one of the field lines coming from the grey water tank. I'm not sure how many field lines there are for these tanks though, would take some digging.

Now it seems one of the kids flushed who knows what down and the most used toilet is plugged. I tried to plunge to no avail, and what's worse the water started coming out of the toilet mount bolt holes! I thought no problem, pull the toilet and replace the wax seal. I pulled the toilet to find water all the way up the flange pipe which appears to be lead and is all beat up & bent like someone took a hammer and pliers to it for some reason. Also, the toilet appears to be clogged as well, as water is sitting in the bowl even though it is pulled from the floor, kids aarrgh!

[speedball1]

"Now it seems one of the kids flushed who knows what down and the most used toilet is plugged. I tried to plunge to no avail, and whats worse the water started coming out of the toilet mount bolt holes!! I thought no problem, pull the toilet and replace the wax seal. I pulled the toilet to find water all the way up the flange pipe which appears to be lead and is all beat up & bent like someone took a hammer and pliers to it for some reason. Also, the toilet appears to be clogged as well, as water is sitting in the bowl even though it is pulled from the floor,"

Sounds like you must first clear the drain line and then run a closet auger down the toilet bowl. Be very careful snaking a lead closet bend. The snake can rupture the lead bend. It might be a better idea to snake from the lavatory roof vent. If you have lead fittiongs in your drainage the house was built well before 1997.

There isn't much I can add to Scrioccos excellent post, but perhaps this may help in the future. Let me give you a few pointers. Since the septic tank is such an essential part of a sewage system, here are some points to remember about the "care and feeding" of that part of the onsite sewage treatment system.
A "starter" is not needed for bacterial action to begin in a septic tank. Many bacteria are present in the materials deposited into the tank and will thrive under the growth conditions present.
If you feel that an additive is needed, be aware that some may do great harm. Additives that advertise to "eliminate" tank cleaning may cause the sludge layer to fluff up and be washed out into the drainfield, plugging soil pores. Some additives, particularly degreasers, may contain carcinogens (cancer-causing) or suspected carcinogens that will flow into the ground water along with the water from the soil treatment unit.
Send all sewage into the septic tank. Don't run laundry wastes directly into the drainfield, since soap or detergent scum will plug the soil pores, causing failure.
Normal amounts of household detergents, bleaches, drain cleaners, and other household chemicals can be used and won't stop the bacterial action in the septic tank. But don't use excessive amounts of any household chemicals. Do not dump cleaning water for latex paint brushes and cans into the house sewer.
Don't deposit coffee grounds, cooking fats, wet-strength towels, disposable diapers, facial tissues, cigarette butts, and other non-decomposable materials into the house sewer. These materials won't decompose and will fill the septic tank and plug the system. To use a 5-gallon toilet flush to get rid of a cigarette butt is also very wasteful of water. Keep an ash tray in the bathroom, if necessary.
Avoid dumping grease down the drain. It may plug sewer pipes or build up in the septic tank and plug the inlet. Keep a separate container for waste grease and throw it out with the garbage.
If you must use a garbage disposal, you will likely need to remove septic tank solids every year or more often. Ground garbage will likely find its way out of the septic tank and plug up the drainfield. It is better to compost, incinerate, or deposit the materials in the garbage that will be hauled away. As one ad says, "You can pay me now, or pay me later."
Clean your septic tank every 1 to 3 years. How often depends on the size of the tank and how many solids go into it. A rule of thumb is once every 3 years for a 1,000 gallon tank serving a 3-bedroom home with 4 occupants (and with no garbage disposal).
Using too much soap or detergent can cause problems with the septic system. It is difficult to estimate how dirty a load of laundry is, and most people use far more cleaning power than is needed. If there are lots of suds in your laundry tub when the washer discharges, cut back on the amount of detergent for the next similar load. It's generally best not to use inexpensive detergents which may contain excessive amounts of filler or carrier. Some of these fillers are montmorillonite clay, which- is used to seal soils! The best solution may be to use a liquid laundry detergent, since they are less likely to have carriers or fillers that may harm the septic system.
Each septic system has a certain capacity. When this capacity is reached or exceeded, there will likely be problems because the system won't take as much sewage as you want to discharge into it. When the onsite sewage treatment system reaches its daily capacity, be conservative with your use of water. Each gallon of water that flows into the drain must go through the septic tank and into the soil absorption unit. Following are some ways to conserve water that should cause little hardship in anyone's standard of living:
Be sure that there are no leaking faucets or other plumbing fixtures. Routinely check the float valve on all toilets to be sure it isn't sticking and the water isn't running continuously. It doesn't take long for the water from a leaking toilet or a faucet to add up. A cup of water leaking out of a toilet every minute doesn't seem like much but that's 90 gallons a day! So be sure that there is no water flowing into the sewer when all water-using appliances are supposed to be off.
The most effective way to reduce the sewage flow from a house is to reduce the toilet wastes, which usually account for about 40 percent of the sewage flow. Many toilets use 5 to 6 gallons per flush. Some of the so-called low water use toilets are advertised to use only 3.5 gallons per flush. Usually the design of the bowl hasn't been changed, however, and often two flushes are needed to remove all solids. That's 7 gallons! Toilets are available which have been redesigned and will do a good job with one gallon or less per flush. Using a 1-gallon toilet rather than a 5 gallon toilet will reduce sewage flows from a home by about a third. This reduction may be more than enough to make the sewage system function again. While prices may vary, 1.6 gallon toilets can usually be purchased in the $200 range, far less than the cost of a new sewer system. Baths and showers can use lots of water. "Setting up camp" in the shower with a shower head flow of 5 gallons per minute will require 100 gallons in 20 minutes. Shower heads that limit the flow to 1.5 or 2 gallons per minute are available and should be used. Filling the tub not quite so full and limiting the length of showers will result in appreciable water savings.
Is the water from the faucet cold enough to drink? How long do you let it run to cool down? Keep a container of drinking water in the refrigerator. Then it won't be necessary to run water from your faucets in order to get a cool drink.
There may be other ways to conserve water that you can think of in your home. The main idea is to consider water as a valuable resource and not to waste it.
Following a few simple rules like not using too much water and not depositing materials in the septic tank that bacteria can't decompose should help to make a septic system trouble-free for m, too! Any years. But don't forget the septic tank does need to be cleaned out when too many solids builtreatment system.
With a water meter you can determine how much water your automatic washer uses per cycle. Many washers now have settings to reduce the amount of water used for small loads. Front loading washers and suds savers use less water than top loading machines. If your sewage treatment system is reaching its maximum capacity, try to spread the washing out during the week to avoid overloading the sewage system on a single day. Septic tanks need tender, loving care too.
Good luck, Tom

[MRKEWL1]

Thank you very much for the info, very helpful. Yes I will definitely try to clear the drain below the closet flange first before reinstalling the toilet. The water has gone down, but there is probably still a clog down there. The toilet is definitely clogged, as it is removed and there is still water sitting in the bowl. I'll be sure to clear that as well.
I found a waxless seal kit at Lowe's and it looks like it would work well if installed properly. I've always used the wax seals so I'm wondering if this will perform as well because the flange is low in the cement floor with tile above. Fluidmaster | Products | Connect - Wax-Free™ Bowl Gasket

[scirocco70]

Heya..

I've tried those Fluidmaster seals, but if it's the one with the big O-ring and the crush cardboard spacer, I wouldn't bother... I personally have never had good luck with them.


The BEST seal I've ever used is the Fernco wax-free. It's totally reusable and when I had to pull that toilet up again a year later, the flange and area were as clean as when I installed it.

Once the original sticky-glue wears off, you can put it back on the toilet horn with RTV silicone, reusing it many times.

Here's a link:
Fernco, Inc.

I found it at Lowe's, though they don't seem to carry it anymore. In my opinion it would be worth ordering if you have the time.

~aaron


.

[MRKEWL1]

The Fernco looks like a much better setup than the fluidmaster. I'll see about ordering that instead. Do you use regular clear RTV silicone for it?
I just hope I can clear the toilet itself, don't want to have to buy a new one. Whoever installed this toilet last sealed around and underneath it with what looks like tile grout. I've always used tile/tub seal. What is the best sealant to put around the toilet after setting it?

[speedball1]

What is the best sealant to put around the toilet after setting it?
We use Dap White Tub and Tile grout on our toilets, lavatories and tubs. Good luck, Tom

[scirocco70]

The Fernco looks like a much better setup than the fluidmaster. I'll see about ordering that instead. Do you use regular clear RTV silicone for it?

It comes with pre-applied sticky sealant already... you only need to use RTV if you're reusing it and the original seal is gone.

I doubt the color matters much... what I happened to have on hand was orange colored oxygen-sensor-safe, high-temperature RTV. The only pitfall is don't get the RTV on your pants, it'll never come out!

~aaron

.