[hockeyparent]

Rec'd letter from atty representing Zellers regarding incident involving my 14 yr old son in Canada.

He and others were apprehended in store after entering bathroom and opening up item with an dumb attempt to blow up balloons.

LPO told them to come with him, questioned them without guardians or counsel and called police.

No charges were filed, Police took boys back to hotel and told husband and other fathers, no biggy, LPO/manager are letting it go, but wanted boys to know the severity of their actions, which the impact did scare them, rightfully so.

Meanwhile, I receive letter from atty demanding $500 (settlement amt from original $900) for recovery costs.

I was not there at the time, but my son had given my name to LPO.

I've called store and requested copy of incident report, which I have not received. I'm trying atty's office and no answer, left message.

My son never left store with items, how can they accuse him of shoplifting, are they assuming his intent of not paying (ok, we know he may not have, but they are requesting a lot of money for a $7.00 item)

Does Canada have some law apply as the US, innocent until proven guilty? - I understand I'm responsible as his parent, but how can they make me pay?

Plus, LPO and manager made light of it, Police officer even said, no biggy, just a dumb prank but made the point clear, don't do it again.

What should I do? - I'm afraid if I do nothing or try to fight this, if we cross the border which we do monthly, will I get stopped?

HELP?

Oh, and they never requested payment for the item, my son had money, but didn't think it was stealing because he didn't leave store. (dumb thought I know).

Any advice would be appreciated much - thanks !

[Justice Matters]

This is a common tactic among department stores and is used as both a deterrent to other would be shoplifters as well as a means to subsidize their security and collection activities.

Most parents end up paying rather than deal with the aggravation and humiliation of dealing with a Small Claims Court action involving their children.

The Parental Responsibility Act says the following:

2(1) Where a child takes, damages or destroys property, an owner or a person entitled to possession of the property may bring an action in the Small Claims Court against a parent of the child to recover damages, not in excess of the monetary jurisdiction of the Small Claims Court,

(a) for loss of or damage to the property suffered as a result of the activity of the child; and

(b) for economic loss suffered as a consequence of that loss of or damage to property. 2000, c. 4, s. 2 (1).

We recommend that you pay for the damaged goods and perhaps a $100 towards their enforcement efforts. Thereafter, they may no longer take in interest in moving the matter forward.

[ScottGem]

In fact, Canadian law is different from the US on this. Canadian case law has given stores the right to impose a punitive fine in such cases. So I go along with Justice, pay the fine and take it out of your son's allowance.

[hockeyparent]

Thank you Justice and Scott !

Oh, believe me, he is paying us back - there was a reason why my husband and my son didn't tell me - I'm a very loud mom with a short fuse, he won't be doing this dumb stunt again!

So, you think if I reply to the letter that the amount is excessive and offer a counter-settlement of the price of the item plus $100 would be good? - I wonder if anyone else has tried that and it was accepted.

I'm ticked because they will not provide me with any accusatory information or statements/reports , nothing proving that my son signed or admitted anything. Now what if that was another child using my son's name ? - I won't lie and say that but just what if.

The amount is way excessive, they pay for the store manager and LPO to be there anyhow - I believe a set fine and the cost of item would be more acceptable, just like what I'll offer to them. I'll post what they respond back with for anyone else with same issues.

Thank you again !

[ScottGem]

You can try making a counter offer, but they do have case law behind them

[Justice Matters]

Just to clarify, we are not suggesting that you make a counter offer. Our advice is that you send an unconditional payment as we described along with a letter explaining why this is all you are prepared to pay.

Part of the purpose in doing so is to satisfy their desire for some money while at the same time making yourself appear reasonable and responsible in the eyes of a potential judge.

[hockeyparent]

Gotcha Justice!

I understand - I am curious on what the atty's office will say and I still want something such as a police report or a statement that my son signed, after all, what would prevent any store from doing this to any child who offers up their name in fear and the offense may be questionable.

I'll still pay something, but it should be reasonable, unless of course a Judge rules differently, then I won't question the fine.

Thank you again