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Delilah P · May 31, 2007, 06:29 PM

I think your 'opening' letter is extremely well-worded, familyman. You obviously took time to find the right words, putting blame on no one in particular. I think the letter should be read out loud at the very beginning of the session. You're right, it sounds like a very good ice breaker and sets the mood for what you have on your mind. You're upfront and open.. no hidden agendas. I pray that your wife comes with an open-mind and is ready to work towards getting back together as a family again. You have my prayers and best wishes. Please let us know how the session fared out for you, familyman2.

Take care... having positive thoughts for you.

familyman2 · Jun 3, 2007, 08:52 AM

I read the letter at the outset and the therapist commented favorably. Then she asked my wife if it moved her and she responded somewhat ambivalently. The main core of the session was of my wife blaming me for things in the past. She really came across as the martyr and took no responsibility for any past problems. She also said that I have personality issues that I am not even aware of, and that I need counseling to work them out. She just can't fathom how I can tell her I love her and then be so hurtful the next minute. I bit my tongue hard! The counselor suggested we spend at least one evening a week talking on the phone for ten minutes, or getting together for a quick coffee, but my wife said she "just isn't there yet". She has agreed to come back for more counseling, however.
I have begun to think I am dealing with a sociopath. I am so confused. She has me thinking I am some damaged personality unworthy of her, due to being so cold and hurtful.
I thought I was being a loving husband all this time. What was I thinking?
Now I feel like my whole marriage has been a rouse for her twisted benefit. Now that she has no need for me why bother? But still I am having a difficult time . I have such strong beliefs that you don't abandon family. I would die for them, including my wife. But she doesn't seem to have any empathy for me. I want to help her so much, but I don't know how, or if there is even a way. I pray that she would open up her heart to me and see what kind of pain this is causing. Maybe if we stick to the counseling we can eventually work it all out.
I knew the first session would be rough, but the realization that my wife might be mentally ill has me grieving unbearably. The sane advice would be to cut and run. But this goes so deeply against my belief system that I can't even consider it right now. Maybe I am overreacting. This was just the first session, and I need to remain calm, patient, and objective.

talaniman · Jun 3, 2007, 09:27 AM

I feel you, its tough and will get tougher, hang in and take heart. Your doing the right thing for you both.

NowWhat · Jun 3, 2007, 11:24 AM

You did not get here overnight - so the solution will not come overnight either. I know you wanted so badly for this session to be the magic cure for your problems. That a light bulb would go off in your wife's head and she would look at you and realize she can't live with out you. But, the reality is - this is going to take time. I know it is easy to sit here and say to remain calm and patient. That is what you have to do now. Try to implament the plan your therapist has given you - even if your wife doesn't seem open to it. If she has agreed to contiune to go to counseling - then you both need to do what the therapist is recommending.
If you call her and she isn't willing to talk or if you ask her out for coffee and she isn't open to that - at least you tried.
She has stated that you have issues you need to work on - tell her that you can not do that alone and you need HER help.
Good Luck

Delilah P · Jun 4, 2007, 12:10 PM

familyman2, I feel there is still hope since your wife made the decision to go to counseling. Perhaps she used this first session to cover her insecurities and guilt by putting the burden on you. Perhaps she wanted the therapist to see you as not the 'good guy', since she (wife) missed out on the first couple of sessions that you had alone. I can't believe that she actually thinks that she has no part in the separation! She couldn't possibly think that she has been the martyr the entire time. She obviously is in a lot of denial and hopefully the counselor is trained well enough to get through to her. It's a two way street.. always a two way street. Even in the most loving marriages.. ones where communication flows... there are times where one or the other partner could have said or done something better. Hang tight, familyman2... I'm 'thinking' that your wife came armed to her first session wanting the therapist to see her as the perfect spouse and had wanted to vent. Once the therapist gets into things, your wife should be able to begin to sort things out... hopefully. I had always thought from beginning that the two of you need to stay in touch by sort calls or going for coffee. It gives you two time with one another to talk as friends.. light conversation, not heavy.
Always keeping strong, positive thoughts for you, familyman. Keep us updated and stay positive!

Mom of 2 · Jun 7, 2007, 11:29 PM

The fact that your wirfe FINALLY made it to therapy really says a lot. It is my opinion that she was digging in her heels about going because it was your idea in the first place to go to therapy. Strong personalities do not like being told what to do. Also, the fact that you opened the session with a touching letter that the therapist applauded you on most likely also added to her defensiveness. It is human nature, but also immaturity, that makes people feel the need to blame others and not take responsibility. I also agree that it is too early to throw in the towel as of yet. You know the saying, "It has to get worse before it gets better." You need to flush out the bad to make way for the good. I really hope that it works out for you. You are truly a remarkable man and I only wish that other people would be as patient and understanding as you have been. If after all of your work your marriage is not saved, then at least you can walk away with the knowledge that you tried everything that was humanly possible to save it. Also, you are a much better person having gone through therapy. Good luck to you and your family. To all of the men out there who are reading this post, take note of this guy. This is how it should be done!!

familyman2 · Jun 12, 2007, 12:16 PM

Wow mom of 2! Thank you very much for that post. Your encouraging words mean a great deal to me.

As an update: there really hasn't been any action other than exchanging the kids here and there. My wife hasn't made any attempt at small talk, and I have just been laying back and giving her space. It feels like, with this space, she is drifting farther away. Maybe it's just me, but I still think she is getting her emotional fix from this other guy, so why should she spend any time thinking about me and us. And it's difficult for me to try any attempt at contact because I'll feel like I am just getting in her way. I'm not sure if there is much I can do for now. So it's just a weird time. I will ask her to attend another therapy session next week, and get her temperature then.

Until then, I'll cope and take it a day at a time.

talaniman · Jun 12, 2007, 12:59 PM

At this point that's all you can do. Get some fresh air in your lungs and go golfing or fishing with friends. It will do you good.

Mom of 2 · Jun 12, 2007, 11:59 PM

Please don't take this post to mean that I am giving you advice to give up totally on the possibility of reconciling. What I am suggesting is a change in strategy, as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the actual definition of insanity. I can't help but think that your wife is determined not to allow ANYTHING to work as long as she thinks that you are calling the shots.

With that in mind, start focusing on yourself and your children. STOP talking to her about the possibility of reconciling. Make her wonder why you are doing this and are not asking her to attend therapy. Make her wonder about a lot of things. It is almost like dealing with a child. The more that you ask a child to do something, the less likely that they will do what you want them to do. If the other person thinks that you have given up, then they may (or may not) have a change of heart. Allow her to sort of feel a little bit of rejection herself. Is this a gamble? Yes, but then again, everything that you have tried so far really has not worked and it sounds as though she is moving farther and farther away with all of your efforts so far.

Again, only you can determine what you should do. I wish you all the luck in the world. The ball is in her court. Make her start to really miss the relationship. I don't think that she really has been able to miss it because you have always been doing the pursuing. You have a lot to think about. I also think that you have to do a lot of soul searching and determine if this relationship is really worth saving. A relationship takes a lot of work on both sides and it should NEVER be one sided.

Delilah P · Jun 14, 2007, 11:12 AM

Familyman, didn't your wife go to last Friday's counseling with you? I know you said she had gone to the first one two weeks ago. Why did she skip one already? And, she'll be missing tomorrow's, too? It has to be consistent to work or make any sense. MomOf2 makes sense in her post... let her come to you now and wonder why you are not pursuing. It may make her wonder why you are not persisiting as you had before (oh, these games we play... ), or, unfortunately she may sigh a sigh of relief and think you are giving up. Either way, the ball IS in her court now... she will have to begin to start talking to you or ask what's up. These things take awhile, but please remember that you want to have a life and you're hoping it's with your wife. If she doesn't begin making some positive moves, then you have to decide how long you want to keep hoping she'll see the light. Good luck, as always... keep us posted!

familyman2 · Jun 14, 2007, 01:16 PM

Delilah, my wife did attend the first session, and basically justified herself by blaming me.
My counselor made the mistake of only "inviting" my wife back, instead of highly recommending that she return weekly for a while. The tentative plans were to get together again next week. I did speak up and asked if we could keep it weekly while the ball had begun rolling. I felt too much time in between sessions would break any kind of momentum. But the counselor sided with my wife on this one. Oh well! I am not sure if my wife still plans to come anymore. I will ask her if she plans to attend next week, and we'll see.

This is crazy. I miss my wife tremendously, but I am so angry with her for behaving this way. How someone could just walk away from a marriage without dealing with it, and begin a new relationship with someone else is beyond my comprehension. It is hurtful and borderline sadistic. I couldn't be this cruel to my worst enemy (if I had one). And the fact that she is hanging out with this guy in front of my kids is equally devastating. It leaves me to question if I really want to be with someone who could hurt me so deeply without showing any empathy. Unfortunately she is not considering the future or the consequences of her actions. She is living for today, which is OK but only to a limit. She cannot see that she is giving up a solid marriage to a loving husband, and a chance at seeing her kids on a daily basis. It's a lot to trade in for some good-time guy from the bowling alley. It's a lot to give up just because she has not been willing to get to work.
I really wish she could truly understand how her immature and irresponsible ways have broken my heart, and will possibly do life-long damage to our family. Maybe she'll wake up before it's too late. I really hope so, only time will tell.

In the meantime, you'll be happy to know that I am not pining in my room for her. I am taking steps to rebuild my life, with or without her. I have planned to move closer to the city where there is a better social scene, more work for me, and a great school for my kids. I feel like I have lead shoes and an empty soul, but moving forward is the only way I can survive this low point in my life.

Anyway, this has been my therapy for today. Thanks for listening...

NowWhat · Jun 14, 2007, 02:19 PM

Keep your head up, my friend. You will get through this. And be stronger for it.

talaniman · Jun 14, 2007, 07:21 PM

Your anger is understandable and its about time, you have every reason to be mad. As frustrating as it is moving forward for your kids, is an excellent plan, just keep them as your most important priority, and let everything else fall in place where they may. You may not agree with this therapist, but let her handle it. Just keep going, and know it will work out. Stay strong and positive.

Delilah P · Jun 18, 2007, 06:38 PM

familyman2, I'm glad you're not "pining" in your room for your wife and have considered moving to a more social area. Stay with the therapist and see what she considers for you and your wife. If your wife doesn't attend anymore sessions, then obviously I can't see how it would help her.

You know, when someone is seeing someone else.. it's the "the grass is always greener on the side" story. The 'other' person treats the spouse differently.. over the top, lots of compliments, no cares, lots of laughter. But, also know that the other person doesn't have the children to consider, any of the relationship building that goes on between a husband and wife, none of the respect that grows between a couple, etc. etc. He can go home without any of the responsibility. Such 'affairs' seem short lived. Soon enough, reality sets in.

I continue to hope that the 'other' guy moves on to someone else and your wife sees how superficial that type of relationship is. I know it has to be hard on you and the children to watch this happen. Hopefully your wife will go to more sessions with you and more will become of the visits. It is the consistency that helps relationships grow.

Good luck and continue to keep us posted, familyman2.

familyman2 · Jun 25, 2007, 07:52 PM

My daughter sat at the dinner table this evening and in a saddened tone said "daddy, why does Jeff always come over to mommy's house and you don't. He gives her a lot of hugs".

Naturally I was outraged. I haven't said anything to my wife. I think I'll go straight to a lawyer. I have been walking through hell trying to keep my family together, trying to make it so my wife can see her kids everyday, as well as I. And my wife has been having the time of her life while putting no effort into our marriage (no effort even into a friendship for that matter). Why should I suffer even more by giving up my children half the time? I think in this situation I should be able to attempt full custody. Again, if I had my choice I would continue the marriage and counseling. But I can't do it alone.

Furthermore, last Friday as the time approached for us to meet for our counseling session, she called with ten minutes to spare to say she would be running late due to a conference call. She never made it. I even got the counselor to give us a later time, and my wife never returned my call. I left a message on my wife's machine saying how upset I am that I have become the lowest priority in her life. Again, no reply. Today when we exhanged the kids she acted like it never happened; business as usual. This is how she deals with everything--she doesn't. She treats me with no respect or dignity. It's like we never were married, never had a relationship. It is crushing and infuriating.

So I am very upset. I don't know whether to give her one more chance to come to counseling or to proceed with the divorce. I hate to end it, but I can only take so much.

Maybe I need to calm down before I make a decision.

In the meantime, if I do divorce, what are my chances at custody? Are there any strategies that will give me an edge?

To be honest, I would be willing to compromise with shared custody if she allows me to be in charge of the kid's education. I'd like to put them in a great school across from our new home. I can be there for them 24/7. I will let my wife have them on weekends and alternate holidays, and also she can have them 4 to 5 days a week during the summer.
I think this is a fair deal considering evrything that has happened.

In summary, I wish to continue working on the marriage, ONLY if she does an about face.
If not I will file for full custody, and settle down to the shared option if necessary.

I need to plan the sequences carefully, and I need to figure out what to tell my wife, or not tell her. I need to figure out what to say and when to say it.

My friends, you have been with me for a lone ride. How it will turn out I don't know. But I am sure glad you all took this ride with me. I am a better person because of your priceless support, generosity, and sage-like insight.

Thank you!

Mom of 2 · Jun 25, 2007, 08:48 PM

Family man, I think that you have given and given and given and there is no more to give.

You have tried to talk to your wife and it is very apparent, both through her actions (or inactions) her words (or lies) that she does not want to work on this marriage. Save your time and don't waste your money on something that won't work. Go to a lawyer and start the process.

As far as custody, you need to consult with an attorney on this. Keep in mind that you need to think about the best interests of the children and not what is best for you. You are angry and you have every right to be, but DO NOT let that be the main reason that you are fighting for custody. If their mother is neglectful or abusive towards them, then there is a reason to "fight for sole custody". Otherwise, what is in the childrens' best interests is for both parents to be involved in their lives, which would mean joint legal custody. The term that needs to be part of your vocabulary is co-parenting. Remember, when there is a custody fight, the big ones to lose are the children and the big ones to win are the lawyers, who will most likely walk away with all of your money once the fight is done. Most likely, in order to pay for this fight, you will need to sell the house that is across the way from the school, which you talked about being your advantage. You say that you "will give her" shared custody, you need to come to terms with the fact that this is not yours "to give", as it is negotiation between the two of you. In the same way, she can not give you anything either.

I know that I may be harsh in saying all of tis and that this may not be what you want to hear, but I have seen far too many children suffer because of these kinds of custody fights. Just because the parents cannot live together does not mean that the children have to be torn between the two parents. The children have every right to love both parents, regardless of what the other parent did to their spouse. PLEASE think of the children in every decision that you make.

Mom of 2 · Jun 25, 2007, 08:56 PM

One more thing, courts usually want the children to stay in whatever school that they are currently in, as continuity is very important to the stability of children. Changing schools, regardless of whether it is a better school, is not in the children's best interest. Status Quo is another term that you need to add to your vocabulary. Courts hate to disrupt anything that is currently in place.

familyman2 · Jun 26, 2007, 08:35 AM

You're absolutely right Mom of 2. The kids are the most important part of this unfortunate situation. I am all for shared custody. I mainly wish to be in charge of their education, and to have them in the same school. My wife can have them most weekends and 4 to 5 days a week during the summer. We will alternate holidays. I think this is the fairest deal considering everything that has happened.

Initially I had my son in kindergarten and my daughter in preschool. The following year I began homeschooling my son, and my wife put my daughter in kindergarten near her.
This year I want them to be in the same school, and from that point on. THIS is what's best for the kids. They are 11 months apart, very close with each other, and deserve to live together on a daily basis.

This is what I have been telling my wife, and it has been a major factor in trying to keep our family together by reconciling our marriage. She obviously doesn't see the importance of this so she shouldn't have grounds for deciding whether the kids attend the same school. It is a great opportunity for the kids and she should at least work together on this with me.

Basically, I wish to settle this out of court with as no contest divorce (if it must be). If she fights me on this plan I will have no choice but to take it to court and be much more aggressive with the settlement.

I absolutely hate this whole situation, but I have been given no choice.

talaniman · Jun 26, 2007, 08:45 AM

Now that you have a clear picture of what's going on and where things are headed, the only thing to do besides continue with the counseling for yourself, and talk to a lawyer about your rights and options. You have given this female the benefit of a doubt, and done all you can, so school yourself on your next moves, before you blab your intentions to the world. Get things in place, and the ball rolling, as you owe no explanations to anyone, except your kids. Good luck, and sorry for your loss, if that what it is.

talaniman · Jun 26, 2007, 08:52 AM

Basically, I wish to settle this out of court with as no contest divorce (if it must be). If she fights me on this plan I will have no choice but to take it to court and be much more aggressive with the settlement.

Get a lawyer first before you do or say anything to anyone.