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ordinaryguy · May 3, 2007, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by NowWhat

She asks people all the time if they go to church or if the believe in Jesus. Keep in mind she is 6 - if they say no, she tells them they are going to go to hell.
That is how she has been taught. That is what we believe. And kids are brutally honest - I do not tell her not to say these things - because if I tell her not to, does it tell her that she should be ashamed of what she is learned or that what she has learned is wrong?

Along with teaching her your beliefs about hell, you might also include some instruction about tact and respect for others' beliefs.

NeedKarma · May 3, 2007, 11:21 AM

Holy Crap, I must have missed that post OG.

NowWhat, you really let your 6 year old daughter tell people they are going to hell if they are not of your religion?

Tuscany · May 3, 2007, 11:24 AM

I think that Scott did a nice job addressing Snave.

Maybe instead of focusing on religon in a public school we should focus our time on teaching our students acceptance of others beliefs, differences, and ideas. Accepting that others might think differently then you, might worship differently then you, and might look differently then you, just might make the world a better place.

RubyPitbull · May 3, 2007, 11:37 AM

Tuscany, what you are suggesting is what I was taught in school. They did not teach religion in school when I was a kid and that was a long, long time ago. Pre 1979 (way pre). We were taught that we should accept and appreciate the differences found in this world. My parents taught me the same, taught me their religion, taught me the difference between right and wrong and, I believe my moral compass is just fine.

Teachers aren't babysitters and should not be expected to teach moral grounding. I wouldn't want a stranger teaching my children the difference between right and wrong. I want complete control over that and would take full responsibility for it. Therein lies the problem with this country. Not enough parents willing to do their jobs or knowing how to do their jobs properly.

Frankly, I have always been of a mind that we should teach a full year of parenting classes in schools. There should be tests. Use the 3 strike rule. Any student that completely flunks his/her final exam, 3 times in a row, should be sterilized. Why don't we do that? I think that solution would resolve the problems that snave states are so rampantly out of control, much more efficiently than teaching religion in schools.

Synnen · May 3, 2007, 11:40 AM

Ruby, I love you.

I've been preaching sterilization of people too stupid to parent for a few years now! I'm so glad I'm not the only one that thinks that breeding is not a "right" but a privilege.

Skell · May 3, 2007, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by SnaveLeber

Ive seen several grids showing the drop in morals of students from the time (1979?? ish) that they took it out. The facts are that the moralsof this country were based upon a christian character. Love thy God, Love thy Neighbor, dont lie dont steal obey your parents (in which is right) dont commit adultery, do not bow down to false idols, dont murder, dont want whats not yours, and keep the sabbath holy. (Way out of order i know)
but look where we are.
Sex is rampant, perversion just as much
We murder
we lie
we disrespect our parents
we get drunk on sat, sleep in on sun.
money is our idol.
most of us say "theres probably a God out there, but theres no telling which is right"
we steal, wanting whats not ours
and we hate other people

And yes i believe that this is a result of taking God, and communicstion with God out of school. Why? Because you are taking young, impressionable people, teaching them about life and logic, telling them in essance, the laws of our God, but when they ask "why is it that we have to follow these rules?" theres no answer.
Leaving them to believe that morals are rules set up by society to govern and control...
leaving them wanting to rebel, because we all just die. end of story.

Don't mean to be rude Snave but all this coming from someone who openly admits to this below. So how come the Bible and God hasn't helped you have any morals and respect?

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dating...ate-88324.html

It's a bit hard for you to mount and argument in its favour given some of your posts!

RubyPitbull · May 3, 2007, 03:52 PM

Great call Skell! Snave, you sound like two different people. WTH? What gives?

Skell · May 3, 2007, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by NowWhat

Last year, in kindergarten - my daughter would pray at snack time. Ask God to bless her food. Her teacher told her not to because it wasn't "allowed". (some of you may have heard this story before) We told her to just say it in her head - we didn't want to go toe to toe with the school.
At Thanksgiving this year we had a "feast" in the classroom - her teacher was going to have them say grace - but there is a muslim child in the class and she didn't want to offend anyone. So we didn't.
My daughter did however say her grace.
She asks people all the time if they go to church or if the believe in Jesus. Keep in mind she is 6 - if they say no, she tells them they are going to go to hell.
That is how she has been taught. That is what we believe. And kids are brutally honest - I do not tell her not to say these things - because if I tell her not to, does it tell her that she should be ashamed of what she is learned or that what she has learned is wrong?

WOW!! I am greatly offended by this. I find this very sad actually and a perfect example of what is wrong with today's society. You want to preach tolerance and love but you find it OK for your daughter to show complete intolerance and lack of love and respect for her piers. No wonder the world is in the shape it is. And by the sounds of it is only going to get worse by the time your daughters generation is old enough to vote.

Im not Muslim and if I had child your daughters class I would also be offended if he / she was made to say grace. I would much prefer they pray to the FSM, but I bet you wouldn't.

And your daughter isn't being honest by telling other children that they are going to hell if they do not believe in Jesus Christ. Not in the slightest. She is being disrespectful and downright rude. Now she doesn't know that and one can't blame her. The blame is squarely on your shoulders and I find it appalling that you justify her behaviour.

ScottGem · May 3, 2007, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by NowWhat

Last year, in kindergarten - my daughter would pray at snack time. Ask God to bless her food. Her teacher told her not to because it wasn't "allowed". (some of you may have heard this story before) We told her to just say it in her head - we didn't want to go toe to toe with the school.
At Thanksgiving this year we had a "feast" in the classroom - her teacher was going to have them say grace - but there is a muslim child in the class and she didn't want to offend anyone. So we didn't.
My daughter did however say her grace.
She asks people all the time if they go to church or if the believe in Jesus. Keep in mind she is 6 - if they say no, she tells them they are going to go to hell.
That is how she has been taught. That is what we believe. And kids are brutally honest - I do not tell her not to say these things - because if I tell her not to, does it tell her that she should be ashamed of what she is learned or that what she has learned is wrong?

I have to go along with the other comments about this appalling behavior. I will repeat what I said in my other post to Snave:

I've said this before. I do not believe that the teachings of Jesus Christ, teachings that spoke about love and peace, about the golden rule, can be reconciled with a teaching that says either you worship this way or you will be damned.

You need to teach your daughter tolerance and respect for other views. I know its hard and confusing, but that's what parenting is about. But I ask you, what is worse, confusing your child or teaching them bigotry?

NowWhat · May 3, 2007, 05:07 PM

Are you kidding me? Ignorance? Who's ignorant? She is 6 years old. She believes in God. She wants to know why people go to hell - we tell her. She wants to know how people go to heaven - we tell her.
Children are blunt - they haven't learned the art of political correctness.
We send her to church - she asks the same questions to them. She gets her answers. Church and God are a part of her life. When she asks her friends if they go to church and if they believe in God - she is asking because she got answers from her parents and the church.
I am not going to tell her not to say what she believes. She is not wrong in what she says. If you do not believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and that he is your one true saviour - then you go to hell. Pretty simple. That is what I believe.
I find it offensive that you would expect me not teach my daughter to STAND for what she believes in.

Skell · May 3, 2007, 05:18 PM

If you were born in another country other than the on you live in than you would be labeled by many as an extremist. That is exactly what you sound like in my opinion.

If I were to adopt your attitude then you and your daughter would be going to what I consider hell. If heaven is full of people with attitudes like yours then I think ill take my chances with the devil thanks.

Standing up for what you believe and having tolerance and respect for others are two complete different things. Your daughter and you aren't standing up for what you believe in. Not even close.

I find it wonderful that your daughter has chosen Jesus as her one and only Saviour. I really do. And I hope that choice leads her to living a life full of good morals and love. I would also hope that that choice she has made would help her learn respect and tolerance but it appears it doesn't. So in my opinion it looks as though she has made a bad choice. If in fact she has made the choice herself. As a 7 year old I highly doubt it!

NowWhat · May 3, 2007, 05:25 PM

Come on people - she is 6 years old. She doesn't know that there are Muslims and Buddhist and all of that. She doesn't know that everyone Doesn't believe the way she does. More than one God? That is foreign to her right now. She isn't rude - she ask a question and then tells what she has been taught.
She is blunt - most kids are. I don't know of any kid that doesn't say exactly what is on their mind.
This is what we believe - this is what we teach her. And for the record - she did make the decision on her own. We had nothing to do with it. She was at church and when I picked her up - she came out and was so happy that "Now she gets to go to heaven and have the supper." (the Lord's Supper if you don't know - grape juice and really hard bread)
We are laying our foundation - when she is old enough to understand that everyone doesn't believe the way she does - tolerance will be taught.

NowWhat · May 3, 2007, 05:34 PM

And we aren't extremist - far from it. I know what I believe and that is what my daughter is being taught. How is that extreme.
She is being taught math too, when she asks what is 2 +2 and her friend gives the answer 5, she tells them they are wrong there too.
You may say that is totally different and to you it may be. Not for her. This is what she is being taught. The fundamentals of the Bible at this point. She can't quote scripture or anything, but she knows the basics. She understands what happens if you don't believe in God. She also invites these kids to church and most come - half of her 1st grade class attends on Wednesday night. She has more love for other people than most kids I know. If she thinks that she has upset you, she apologizes - after she cries about it because she doesn't like the idea of hurting your feelings. If her friends show interest in her things - she gives them the item. More stuff leaves my house because of that.
So to say I am teaching certain things like not showing love - you have no idea what you are talking about.

Skell · May 3, 2007, 05:34 PM

I accept what you are saying. She is too young to understand it all. And yes children do say what they think. As I said I never put blame on her. I was just a bit concerned that you appeared to be justifying her actions and indeed encourage them.

Your last line gives me some comfort. That is good. But some of your previous posts made it appear that not only were you OK with her telling other kids they were going to hell but you were actually proud of it.

It is the same old story. Not everyone thinks the way you do. Your god and your heaven is not a place I want to be, nor by the sounds of it would be welcome, if involves the intolerance I see practiced by many of its 'residents'.

ScottGem · May 3, 2007, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by NowWhat

If you do not believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and that he is your one true saviour - then you go to hell. Pretty simple. That is what I believe.
I find it offensive that you would expect me not teach my daughter to STAND for what she believes in.

And you are entitled to believe that. I am happy you find comfort in that. But you are not entitled to impose your beliefs on others.

What might happen if your daughter has a friend whose parents have taught their child that if you they are kind and considerate and respect others, if they don't lie or break the law, that they will go to heaven. But those parents don't believe in Christ as the savior. Can you imagine the trauma your daughter might cause to that child by telling her she's going to hell??

How dare you take that risk?

And think how your daughter might feel if causes such traume in a friend?

Try thinking of the consequences of your actions instead of being so self absorbed in your own beliefs.

Skell · May 3, 2007, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by NowWhat

"If you do not believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and that he is your one true saviour - then you go to hell. Pretty simple. That is what I believe."

A comment like this is quite extreme in my view.

NowWhat · May 3, 2007, 05:38 PM

I am proud of my daughter. I am proud that she is beginning to understand God. That she is willing to ask people about it. That she is strong enough to stand for what she believes in. Not afraid to share. I am proud of her.
I guess when I said she does this "all the time" - I have heard her ask the neighbor boy a couple of times. I actually thought it was funny. (I am sure there will be 2 more pages of post for that statement)

I am proud of my daughter - she is kind, respectful, has manners and is a good girl.

NowWhat · May 3, 2007, 05:40 PM

Well, then I am extreme. I am offensive.
I believe in God.

NeedKarma · May 3, 2007, 05:42 PM

I think you're going to hell.

Skell · May 3, 2007, 05:42 PM

You appear to be backtracking a little.

I am sure she is a good girl as I am sure you're a good mother and good women too. And you should be proud of your daughter. Of course, but it doesn't mean you have to be proud of all her actions.

A lot of people would argue though that telling other children they are going to hell is not well mannered, kind or respectful.

But you have gone from 'all the time' to a 'couple of times'.