[treyball3]

My grandmother died a couple months ago. It was pretty hard. And it got even harder when I started thinking about Heaven and Hell. My grandmother was a sweet old lady, and went to church occasionally, but really didn't have a strong relationship with God. And that got me thinking... If the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ, doesn't that mean that my grandma could be in hell right now! No one EVER thinks of a sweet, 85 year old woman dying and going to hell. Why is that?

Our society and churches have gotten soft. They tell you the only way to Heaven is through Christ. But yet when people die they're quick to tell you "(s)he's in a better place", or tell you how God has called him/her home, or any number of phrases meaning that person is in Heaven now. I've been struggling with this now for weeks. People today have gotten so used to "I don't even have to be a good person, just as long as I don't do anything REAL bad, I'll go to Heaven." Society is partly to blame, but I think the church is also to blame.

Could you imagine going to a funeral and hearing "Mr. Smith was a good man, but he didn't have a relationship with God, and he's now burning in hell." Granted, that's going to offend pretty much everyone there. But since when should the church care about offending people? I think that churches are being somewhat hypocritical, in that they tell you the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ but then every funeral you go to, they make it sound like every single person has gone to Heaven!

Now, I'm not against church and I am a Christian, this is just something I've been struggling with lately. I figured I'd post it on here and get a conversation going on the topic. See what other people think. I'm guessing many people haven't thought about this topic a whole lot.

I feel like IF the churches were to change the way they do funerals and be more honest about Heaven and Hell, more people might come to Christ. Once people got past the shock and got over being offended, I think they could really come to some self-realization and re-evaluate their lives. Of course, you can't just push one or a few churches to do this, because they would quickly lose membership, but if somehow you could get ALL churches to do it, it could work.

I know I know, "good luck with that". This is all just for discussion, I realize it'll never happen.

[NeedKarma]

I don't believe you need to be some 3-day-a-week worshipping, Bible thumping believer in order not to go to hell. If you're a good person, treated people well, did good things, that's all you need.

[Northwind_Dagas]

Hypocrisy in Christianity? NO WAY!!

Seriously, hypocrisy is a major reason I turned away from Christianity long ago. As crazy as they seem, in many ways the Westboro Baptist Church people are the least hypocritical of the denominations. (I don't in any way condone their beliefs/activities, just making a point!)

[RubyPitbull]

Well, I am not going to touch the topic of hypocrisy. Your posting will wind up being the Twilight Zone of AMHD in that we will all be here for the remainder of our lives discussing it, disabusing it, agreeing with it,.

I will say that most people tell you those positive things because they are trying to ease your pain. They are simply being kind. Compassion compels them to say these things to the living when someone they love dies, no matter what faith they follow or don't follow. Whether it is true or not, is not something they are contemplating at that moment. They are only looking for words that they feel will comfort you.

[Synnen]

Okay... this whole thread has been bugging me.

How do YOU know what her relationship with God is? Isn't that a somewhat private thing?

Besides... don't you "accept Jesus in your heart" every time you do as he would do - feed the hungry, give warmth to the cold, bring hope to those in despair, etc.

Why does someone's faith need to be shouted from the rooftops? Why can't it be in their hearts?

It seems to me that you are letting a little bit of the devil into your soul, by doubting someone else's faith. Isn't it up to GOD to judge that?

As far as the Christian church being hypocritical... gee, you stopped with just the platitudes someone gives at a funeral! Do you think that's the only hyprocrisy in the church?

I'm not Christian, but believe you me, someone telling me that my granny is burning in hell isn't going to get me to convert, either.

[ordinaryguy]

So who's got access to the facts about whether someone went to heaven or hell? You may be right that funeral preachers are too quick to preach the dead to heaven, but even preachers have to be concerned about keeping their job, and I'm sure preaching the dead to hell is a good way to get fired. Besides, trying to scare people into being good doesn't really work as far as I can tell.

[RubyPitbull]

I logged on this morning to see 19 replies to my question, how exciting!
Until I read them...
I was hoping for a good discussion on funerals, but I guess I should've known better.

I am sorry about this trey. Unfortunately this happens all too frequently. I know you are looking for constructive discussion on this topic and the death of your Grandmother. I am going to go back to excerpts from your original post.

My grandmother died a couple months ago. It was pretty hard. And it got even harder when I started thinking about Heaven and Hell. My grandmother was a sweet old lady, and went to church occasionally, but really didn't have a strong relationship with God. And that got me thinking... If the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ, doesn't that mean that my grandma could be in hell right now! No one EVER thinks of a sweet, 85 year old woman dying and going to hell. Why is that??

Our society and churches have gotten soft. They tell you the only way to Heaven is through Christ. But yet when people die they're quick to tell you "(s)he's in a better place", or tell you how God has called him/her home, or any number of phrases meaning that person is in Heaven now. I've been struggling with this now for weeks. People today have gotten so used to "I don't even have to be a good person, just as long as I don't do anything REAL bad, I'll go to Heaven." Society is partly to blame, but I think the church is also to blame.

Could you imagine going to a funeral and hearing "Mr. Smith was a good man, but he didn't have a relationship with God, and he's now burning in hell." Granted, that's going to offend pretty much everyone there. But since when should the church care about offending people? I think that churches are being somewhat hypocritical, in that they tell you the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ but then every funeral you go to, they make it sound like every single person has gone to Heaven!!

I feel like IF the churches were to change the way they do funerals and be more honest about Heaven and Hell, more people might come to Christ. Once people got past the shock and got over being offended, I think they could really come to some self-realization and re-evaluate their lives. Of course, you can't just push one or a few churches to do this, because they would quickly lose membership, but if somehow you could get ALL churches to do it, it could work.

Before this thread got off topic, you received some insightful answers. Reread those first answers and then come back to this posting.

I guess my question to you would be, do you really think it would have made you feel better about your Grandmother's death, for whoever was presiding over the services in church, to tell you that because your Grandmother's faith wasn't reaffirmed or because (you believe) she didn't have "a strong relationship with God", that she was going to burn in Hell for all of Eternity?

You need to put yourself back in that pew and think of how you would feel if this was said instead of what was actually said. I can't imagine that would make you feel better about her death. In fact, I think it would have upset you terribly. Frankly, I can't imagine it would make any of us feel better being told something like this about anyone that they loved. People would not get over the shock of it eventually and say: "Hey, wait a minute. You know, that guy is right!" I think the majority of the people would be deeply offended for someone to suggest it would be a good idea to reevaluate their lives or this too can happen to them, at the funeral of someone they loved and miss. It is definitely one of those situations of kicking someone when they are down.

What do you think?

[Wangdoodle]

Pastors can not see into the human heart. Only God can. However; I think it is safe for a pastor to rely on God's mercy. If he has seen your grandma at his church, and she has shown any sign of Christ's love in her, I think it is all right for people to say she is in heaven even if we don't know for sure. A funeral is a time of much emotion. People need comforting at that time. A Sunday homily is better suited for cold hard facts about heaven and hell. Just my opinion.

[ordinaryguy]

I was hoping for a good discussion on funerals, but I guess I should've known better.

I don't know what you would call a "good discussion about funerals", but I don't think this thread is that far off-topic. The arrogance of presuming to make a human judgment about the dead person's state of grace and their relationship to God is what a lot of the posters, including me, are reacting to. It's breathtakingly presumptious to suppose that anyone is capable of making such a judgment, yet there seems to be no shortage of people who are willing, even eager, to do it.

I suppose it depends on what you think funerals are for. If it's to comfort the bereaved, then I don't think emphasizing the fires of hell is really that helpful. But if the purpose is to catch people when they're vulnerable and grieving and exploit the opportunity to try to scare them straight, then I suppose you can make a case for it. I've sat through many funeral sermons that seemed to be designed to do just that, and I've felt ripped off every time. Usually they're not so crude as to make a judgment about whether this particular dead person is burning in hell, but they're not at all shy about threatening the listening mourners with it if they dare to question the speaker's version of truth and righteousness. It's insensitive at best, bigoted at worst.

[Northwind_Dagas]

I've sat through many funeral sermons that seemed to be designed to do just that, and I've felt ripped off every time. Usually they're not so crude as to make a judgment about whether this particular dead person is burning in hell, but they're not at all shy about threatening the listening mourners with it if they dare to question the speaker's version of truth and righteousness.

Boy do I know EXACTLY what you are talking about there. I attended four funerals in '06, and three of them condemned me to Hell--as though it where even possible for a man to do that (providing that Hell exists. ;) )

[Skell]

I guess I'm lucky I like it warm! ;)

[Curlyben]

*Puts Broom Back In Cupboard*

Hopefully this thread can now return to the OP original question.

[gazelleintense]

My mom and grandmom died 7 years ago, one month apart... its easier, but still hard sometimes... so I know what you mean there.. .

[iscorpio]

Hi you do not need a church to have god in your life, you are your own church, god can hear just as well when you talk to god within your mind as he can in a brick building, I am sure that as with everyone your grandmother did believe in her own way and there is no need to worry about her going to hell, religions preach nasty brainwashing things sometimes I know this from experience, is why I rebelled, spent so much time in the confessional lol that confessing that I had nasty thoughts of my brother because he was spiteful to me and each time I said sorry and did my penance and then the next week sure as eggs is eggs lol I was back in there, this is hypocritical to me as I knew no matter how many times I said sorry and confessed and did my punishment I would be back for the same reason because of how I was provoked, I was young and made to feel that I was so bad and looking back I was not at all bad but every little thing I did I carried guilt for many years even today talking like this I think maybe I will be struck down for it. Religion can be good for some I do not mock it for those that believe, it can cause wars, it can be the butt of heated of arguments and it can make you feel that you are such a bad person, I am losing my guilt it has taken me all these years, I am my own church now and god is a close to me as anyone, so please take from this what you will, I hope you found comfort in my words, take care, love and peace anne x