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Can a relationship where one side doesn't respect the other last ?
Statesman : a person engaged in fixing the policies and conducting the affairs of a government especially : one having unusual wisdom and skill in such matters
I saw a complete lack of statesmanship at the White House yesterday . The p*ssing contest was amateurish . I don't mind the bluntness in negotiations . I'd rather that all the cards are on the table (and yes the card game comparisons do apply in negotiations . ) But the conversation that took place should have taken place before the agreement was on the table. When it gets to formal meetings by heads of state ;all the details should be hashed out ;or if there is more to do than it should not be televised live with a bunch of jackass reporters throwing bombs . (Yeah I'm talking about MGT's lover Brian Glenn ;alleged reporter for Real America's Voice ;who dressed in the costume of a reported to ask Zelenski why he dresses in costume ). It is hard to believe that two Presidents schooled in reality tv can conduct serious diplomacy It resembled a 3 Stooges pie fight more than a signing ceremony. Watch tense Oval Office argument between Zelensky, Trump and Vance | CNN Politics Full transcript and video here President Trump Meets with Ukrainian President Zelensky | C-SPAN.org That's all I have to say about that . But the bluntness did serve a purpose. It is clear that the puppet of the Europeans does not respect the US. Oh he sucks up to ones like Clueless Joe because Joe was willing to wage WWIII on Ukraine's behalf . He kept on talking about security guarantees . If he took 2 seconds to think about it ,the mineral deal he was about to sign implied security guarantees . Or does he really think the US would risk personnel and treasure to develop Ukraine's resources while being bombed ? It is a fact that we are not respected by Zelensky and Europe . He kept on referring to what Euro-leaders told him . He was their spokesperson for the "rules based international order " (aka the US puts up it's treasure to protect us ) He left carrying the clear message not any more . Here was the reaction in Europe . Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission : Ursula von der Leyen on X: "Your dignity honors the bravery of the Ukrainian people. Be strong, be brave, be fearless. You are never alone, dear President @ZelenskyyUa. We will continue working with you for a just and lasting peace." / X French President Macron : Emmanuel Macron on X: "There is an aggressor: Russia. There is a victim: Ukraine. We were right to help Ukraine and sanction Russia three years ago—and to keep doing so. By “we,” I mean the Americans, the Europeans, the Canadians, the Japanese, and many others. Thank you to" / X Soon to be new Chancellor of Germany Friedrich Merz Friedrich Merz on X: "Dear Volodymyr @zelenskyyua, we stand with #Ukraine in good and in testing times. We must never confuse aggressor and victim in this terrible war. (FM)" / X Mélanie Joly,Canadian Foreign Minister said Ukraine was “fighting for their own freedoms, but also fighting for ours.”
European Union foreign minister Kaja Kallas said that “today it became clear that the free world needs a new leader. It’s up to us, Europeans, to take this challenge.”
Yes they will all defend Ukraine to the last Ukrainian. Zelensky knows he needs a deal with the US . To recklessly rely on his Euro partners is a sure path to total Ukraine destruction or even worse WWIII. Maybe he should rethink his hard line attitude and gratefully accept Trump's intervention |
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Marco Rubio 's take (if you watch the video ,he was sitting there despondent over the direction the meeting went )
The way you bring it to an end is you get Russia to the table to talk, and he understands that. Attacking Putin, no matter how anyone may feel about him personally, forcing the President into a position where you’re trying to goad him into attacking Putin, calling him names, maximalist demands about Russia having to pay for the reconstruction – all the sorts of things that you talk about in a negotiation. Well, when you start talking about that aggressively – and the President’s a deal maker, he’s made deals his entire life – you’re not going to get people to the table. And so you start to perceive that maybe Zelenskyy doesn’t want a peace deal. He says he does, but maybe he doesn’t. And that act of open undermining of efforts to bring about peace is deeply frustrating for everyone who’s been involved in communications with them leading up to today. Secretary of State Marco Rubio With Kaitlan Collins of CNN - United States Department of State my own thoughts ;and I have no way to prove it ;is that the day the war ends is the day Zelensky is out of power and possibly jailed by his own people. |
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aka the US puts up it's treasure to protect us
Great post, Tom. I thought last night that I wanted to see your thoughts on this. I can understand Zelensky despising Putin, but barring a major involvement of troops on the ground and in the air by NATO forces, Ukraine cannot win this war. Some sort of peace agreement is the only rational outcome, |
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Our monopoly dollars can't last much longer
Note all the payouts Timeline Now I won't accuse Zelensky of skimming .I am told by "factchecker's " that he really did not buy his mansion in Florida . Fact Check: Did Zelensky Buy $20 Million Mansion in Florida? - Newsweek |
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Boris Johnson compares the mineral deal with FDRs Lend Lease program .
Boris Johnson lobbies for Donald Trump’s minerals deal with Ukraine – POLITICO It was mutually beneficial . UK got war supplies Roosevelt got an industry that helped propel the US out of the depression. The mineral deal gives the US something in return for the weapons we have sent and will send .It gives Trump political cover to support Ukraine against the more isolationist MAGA wing. For Ukraine it gives Zelensky the security guarantee that he seeks although he does not realize it because he in a novice. Does he really think American heavy investment on Russia's door step will not be protected ? The back story to the blow up in the White House was Zelenski's trip to PA during middle of the fall campaign. This was viewed as an endorsement of Kam the Sham . He flew in on a US military jet ;was accompanied by PA Gov Josh Shapiro ;Sen Bob Casey.,and other prominent Dems . No Repub was invited . Ukraine's Zelenskyy visits Pennsylvania ammunition plant to thank workers and ask for more | AP News During the campaign he called Vance "too radical " and questioned Trump's ability to broker the end of the war.
During the Presidential debate, moderators asked Trump whether he wanted Ukraine to win against Russia, and he sidestepped the question. He just said, “I want the war to stop.” It must have troubled you to hear his answer and to consider the prospect of his winning.
Trump makes political statements in his election campaign. He says he wants the war to stop. Well, we do, too. This phrase and desire, they unite the world; everyone shares them. But here’s the scary question: Who will shoulder the costs of stopping the war? Some might say that the Minsk Agreements either stopped or froze the fighting at some point. But they also gave the Russians a chance to arm themselves even better, and to strengthen their fake claim over our territories they occupied. But isn’t that yet more cause for alarm? My feeling is that Trump doesn’t really know how to stop the war even if he might think he knows how. With this war, oftentimes, the deeper you look at it the less you understand. I’ve seen many leaders who were convinced they knew how to end it tomorrow, and as they waded deeper into it, they realized it’s not that simple. Apart from Trump’s own reluctance to talk about Ukrainian victory, he has chosen J. D. Vance as his Vice-Presidential candidate. He is too radical. Vance has come out with a more precise plan to— To give up our territories. Your words, not mine. But, yes, that’s the gist of it. It is no surprise that Vance took the lead in the blow up at the White House. And Zelensky instead of trying to smooth over their differences took the opportunity in a live broadcast doubled down. All he had to do is bite his tongue and check his ego at the door to get the deal done. That he didn't tells me that he either did not want the deal ;or that he is a national leader over his head .He did not serve his country well . More people in Ukraine will die as a result. |
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Mollie Hemingway has another interesting take on the meeting. The left here and in Europe ; and compliant press, has jumped on the narrative that the meeting was a "set up " by "Putin puppet " Trump . She says it was a set up alright .
Zelensky repeatedly declined opportunities to sign the deal in Kyiv and Munich, and requested the meeting at the White House. It later came out that Rice and Tony Blinken, Victoria Nuland, and Alexander Vindman may have been personally advising Zelensky to do this meeting in the way he did -- that they recommended him to be hostile and to try to goad Trump into blowing up. Even though he didn't, and even though Zelensky's actions horrified many normal Americans, the Obama team went on the airwaves to falsely characterize what happened.I think their goal was to have a wonderful performance by Zelensky, an angry Trump appearing to scuttle the deal, and the support of the neocon portion of the GOP to start applying pressure on Trump to have US Troop commitments as part of the "security guarantee." It was a set-up, in Susan Rice's interesting choice of words.
Mollie on X: "Yesterday, Susan Rice said of the Trump-Zelensky meeting, "There is no question this was a set up." She revealed full knowledge of the mineral agreement, complained that it didn't include "concrete" security agrees (meaning, apparently, commitment of US troops on the ground if" / X I had forgotten that Rice was in the White House meeting in January 2017 where they discussed setting up Michael Flynn.(now that was a real set up) politico.com/f/?id=00000172-2e48-d57a-ad7b-7e6f97060000 Also at the meeting , Clueless Joe suggested using the Logan Act against Flynn. |
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Marco Rubio
"I've asked every foreign minister I meet with to tell me your idea of how this turns out. Most don't have a plan," Rubio said. "A few have said, 'Well, let's give them another year of fighting, a year from now, a year later, after another year of death, another year of destruction, then maybe Putin will be ready to negotiate at that point.' That doesn't sound like a good plan to me, and it certainly is not a plan the president's on board with."
"What's really important here is to understand the dynamic. The president is basically saying, there's this horrible war. It's been going on for three years. It is a bloody stalemate, a meat grinder type war, and he wants it to end." "How does it end? It's very simple. The only way it ends is if Vladimir Putin comes to a negotiating table. And right now President Trump is the only person on earth who has any chance whatsoever of bringing him to a table to see what it is he would be willing to end the war," he said. "Now, maybe their demands will be unreasonable. We don't know. But we have to bring them to the table." Secretary Rubio: Wait And See After "Another Year of Death" Is Not A Plan For Ukraine We're Willing To Accept | Video | RealClearPolitics The EU is even willing to chip in a little .
Declaring that “we are at a crossroads in history,” Prime Minister Keir Starmer of Britain said on Sunday that European countries would ramp up their military spending and assemble a “coalition of the willing” to defend Ukraine against Russia.
yup as I have said ;defend to the last Ukrainian . What are they going to do ? Put troops on the ground ? Nah but if Russia retaliates then BAM Article 5 of the NATO Charter and US gets dragged in . |
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Starmer is using Churchillian language as if Russia is ready to attack Great Britain as Hitler was poised after Dunkirk .
No Russian tanks are not going to roll down the streets of London. PM statement on defence spending: 25 February 2025 - GOV.UK It never had to be like this . Flashback 1955
On May 15, 1955, representatives of the governments of the Soviet Union, Great Britain, the United States, and France signed a treaty that granted Austria independence and arranged for the withdrawal of all occupation forces. These governments signed the agreement with the understanding that the newly independent state of Austria would declare its neutrality, creating a buffer zone between the East and the West. The Austrian State Treaty was the only treaty signed by both the Soviet Union and United States in the decade after the 1947 Paris Peace Treaties, and it marked the only Cold War era withdrawal by the Soviet Union from a territory it occupied.
That treaty survived through the cold war. Austria was on the front line. The Soviet Union honored the treaty . Post Cold War it still survives . Why was no such a treaty considered for Ukraine ? Had a treaty been reached and Putin violated it then all ours and the West's response would've been justified . The last of the WWII generation is almost gone. There are very few who remember the horrors of the war. The history of the West is one of having a generational blood letting for at least 3 centuries going back to the Napoleonic wars. (and that doesn't include the empire world wars that happened before that ....... hint the American Revolution was part of a larger world war between Great Britain and France) Maybe it is part of the Western DNA. A sure way for that to happen would be a committed coalition of the willing to support Ukraine. Russia has made it clear that Ukraine admittance into NATO is a red line . But a West commitment to Ukraine security would have the same effect . Time for them to nuke up Macron suggests nukes in Europe and Ukraine ceasefire plan |
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I found a second source confirming that Zelenski met with anti-Trump Dems BEFORE his White House meeting with Trump
Before meeting Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.).
“Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine,” Murphy’s office posted on X at 11:15 a.m. Friday. He attached a picture of Zelensky at a conference table, with Murphy seated on the opposite side. Forty minutes later, Zelensky arrived at the White House, where Trump met his car, smiled, shook his hand and walked him into the Oval Office. Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukrain - Search / X |
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Did some research on Senator Murphy. Turns out he is another John McCain war party disciple .
Chris Murphy 🟧 on X: "John McCain took me under his wing when I got the Senate, dragged me around the world, and taught me how to honorably and proudly represent America abroad. On each trip, I felt so lucky to be participating in history. https://t.co/x8wcaSiZGB" / X One of the places McCain "dragged " him to was Kyiv . That was when the US orchestrated the coup against Ukraine's elected President Viktor Yanukovych . Demonstrations against his elections were taking place and McCain and Murphy among other American leaders were on the streets with the protesters. Yanukovych had been defeated during the 2004 Orange Revolution. But he had gained the public trust again and was elected President in what was widely hailed as a fair election Yanukovych set to become president as observers say Ukraine election was fair | Ukraine | The Guardian Still Ukraine was split with pro-Russian and pro-West factions. It was a tough nut to crack . Ukraine was dependent on Russian oil .But Ukraine oligarchs saw more opportunity with the west. He walked that tight rope. But clearly he was pro-Russian. He made policy decisions like rejecting NATO membership and leasing the naval base in Crimea to Russia until 2042 in exchange for cheaper Russian oil. But he was far from a Putin puppet . He rejected the merger of Russian and Ukraine's gas company. He did not fully join in economic union with Moscow. He was working with the west in economic projects and a willingness to join the EU Ukraine's Yanukovich pledges to work for EU integration - Euractiv Now or Never for Ukraine's Gas Transit Pipelines - New Europe So there was Murphy and McCain on the streets egging on the protesters . Ukrainian protesters get visit from John McCain - CNN And they succeeded Yanukovych was ousted and fled for his life. The pro Russian Ukrainians ;mostly in the Donbas went into open revolt in 2014 . Russia occupied Crimea to ensure their claim to the naval base. Chris Murphy and the war party see all this ending if Trump orchestrates a peace deal. But their only end game is the complete defeat of Russia....or as Clueless Joe liked to say........."as long as it takes " |
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Meanwhile how committed is the EU in defeating Russia ? Money talks . They spent 22 billion euros to purchase Russian gas last year . They gave Ukraine 19 billion euro in aid .
EU spends more on Russian oil and gas than financial aid to Ukraine – report | Russia | The Guardian Trump is going to force Europe to make the choice to keeping their gold plated social policies or guarantee Ukraine's security . Any bets how that ends ? |
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Now here's a great idea if the goal is to have Russia fight ;win or lose to the end . Why would they possibly negotiate if in the end they were going to be put on trial for war crimes ?
Zelensky and Council of Europe rights body sign accord for Ukraine war tribunal The crime of aggression is broad and can be used to put many nations and their leaders (including the US ) for "the planning, preparation, initiation or execution, by a person in a position effectively to exercise control over or to direct the political or military action of a State, of an act of aggression which, by its character, gravity and scale, constitutes a manifest violation of the Charter of the United Nations."The act of aggression means "the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations." Crime of Aggression | Coalition for the International Criminal Court Under this threat of a war crimes tribunal ;and Ukraine's insistence that there be no territorial concessions ;the only way for the war to end is with total victory for one side. These acts can include, among others, invasion, military occupation, and annexation by the use of force, blockade by the ports or coasts. |
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