[tomder55]

What we know
American Airline flight 5342 from Wichita Kansas flying into JFK airport ..... that had among it's passengers young ice skaters from the US and Russian teams ; collided with an Army Black Hawk helicopter on a training mission . The jet was in it's landing . Both fell into the near frozen Potomac River .

Given the assumption that the first 3 reports are wrong ; it appears that both should've had visual of each other ......that they were both being direct by Air traffic control on different frequencies....that the helicopter was directed to take a path that would've steered it away from the jet.

The skaters had participated in the National Development Camp at the US Figure Skating Championships in Wichita, KS. last week. They had stayed in Kansas for additional training .

Search is still underway for survivors .

'Devastated': Figure skaters, coaches aboard flight that collided with Black Hawk over DC - ABC News

[jlisenbe]

The video I saw is just really strange. The chopper just appears to fly directly into the aircraft, probably from behind. It could almost look intentional unless the Blackhawk crew was possibly training on instrument flying with hoods on? Just really strange.

[tomder55]

Yes waiting for answers . I suspect the worse .... everything hacking to DEI .

[tomder55]

everything hacking to DEI .

I wrote this in the morning partly tongue in cheek . Yet withing a couple of hours ;with no more evidence about it than I had this morning ;before all the bodies had been retrieved ,Trump pointed a finger at the Air Traffic Controllers DEI hiring.

This is completely irresponsible . The early morning reports I heard suggested that both the plane and jet were in contact with the controllers but on different frequencies . BY all accounts it was the helicopter that ignored instructions,

[jlisenbe]

Does Trump being irresponsible and speaking without thinking surprise you? It is his worst trait.

[jlisenbe]

To be fair, this is, I think, the comment you are referring to. "The FAA is actively recruiting workers who suffer severe intellectual disabilities, psychiatric problems, and other mental and physical conditions under a diversity and inclusion hiring initiative spelled out on the agency's website,"

If that is true, then it is serious. As with many things Trump, the question is, "Is it true?"

[tomder55]

yeah since 1973 it has been against the law to discriminate against the disabled.

Section 501 is a non-discrimination law specific to employment with the Federal government that:

• Protects qualified individuals with disabilities from disparate treatment or harassment based on disability;

Employment Protections Under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973: 50 Years of Protecting Americans with Disabilities in the Workplace | U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

It is also language that was in his 1st term FAA guidelines,
From December 2020

People with Disabilities

Individuals with targeted or "severe" disabilities are the most under-represented segment of the Federal workforce. The People with Disabilities Program (PWD) ensures that people with disabilities have equal Federal employment opportunities. The FAA actively recruits, hires, promotes, retains, develops and advances people with disabilities.
The FAA meets the goals of the PWD Program through a variety of practices:
Targeted DisabilitiesTargeted disabilities are those disabilities that the Federal government, as a matter of policy, has identified for special emphasis in recruitment and hiring. They include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism.

https://www.faa.gov/jobs/diversity_inclusion/

This language was unchanged since Feb 26 .2013 through the emperor's ;Trump's and Clueless Joe's terms
Diversity and Inclusion

The FAAs 10 year plan was published on his watch (page 38)
AVIATION SAFETY WORKFORCE PLAN 2020-2029
They had a pilot program for hiring and training disabled .
FAA Provides Aviation Careers to People with Disabilities | Federal Aviation Administration

Trump took that language verbatim from a NY Post last year about FAA hiring after a door blew off a Boeing jet in flight. Boeing is in the hot seat for their shoddy work on 737s and of course their Starliner left astronauts stranded on the space station.

This was FAA's response in the article to the implied charge that DEI hiring had anything to do related to Boeing's issues.

“The FAA employs tens of thousands of people for a wide range of positions, from administrative roles to oversight and execution of critical safety functions. Like many large employers, the agency proactively seeks qualified candidates from as many sources as possible, all of whom must meet rigorous qualifications that of course will vary by position,”

FAA’s diversity push includes hiring people with ‘intellectual’ and ‘psychiatric’ disabilities

The percent of disabled workers is low compared to the total FAA employment .
At the end of the emperor's term there were 320 out of a force of 45,908 employees .

Does Trump have any evidence that the air traffic controller was not qualified or even handicapped in anyway ? There are plenty ways to prove that DEI hiring is misguided . Trump undermines his argument with speaking without thinking.
Maybe Susie Wiles can have a sit down with him and convince him to work with his staff before he speaks .

Maybe she can prevent him from saying heartless sh*t like this

Trump on Visiting Collision Site: 'You Want Me to Go Swimming?' | WSJ News - YouTube

[tomder55]

If there was going to be a mid-air collision than this runway at Reagan was the most likely one for it. Besides the fact that it is short ;besides the river ;and shares air space with military craft ; it also has 800 take offs and landings a day.

Part of the reason for this is Congress. You see Reps and Senators who don't live in the DC bubble have insisted over time that the airport provides more direct flights for them.

The initial Perimeter Rule limited non-stop service to/from Reagan National to 650 statute miles, with some exceptions for previously existing service. By the mid-1980s, Congress had expanded Reagan National non-stop service to 1,250 statute miles (49 U.S. Code § 49109). Ultimately, Reagan National serves primarily as a "short-haul" airport while Washington Dulles International Airport serves as the region's "long-haul" growth airport.
Congress must propose and approve federal legislation to allow the U.S. Department of Transportation to issue "beyond-perimeter" exemptions which allows an airline to operate non-stop service to cities outside the perimeter. As a result of recent federal exemptions, non-stop service is now offered between Reagan National and the following cities: Austin, Denver, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, San Francisco, San Juan, Seattle and Portland, Ore.

flyreagan.com - DCA Reagan National - Slot & Perimeter Rules

Capital Advocacy Group lobbied for more flights . Congress passed the law and Clueless Joe signed it.

With The President’s Signature, Greater Access To Nation’s Capital Becomes Law Of The Land - Capital Access Alliance

They say the perimeter rule is outdated . But besides this crash there have been other near misses that should've been a wake up call.

On two occasions, passenger planes had to take evasive action to avoid colliding with a helicopter when trying to land at the airport, according to reports filed by pilots. In a third incident, two military helicopters got too close together, an air traffic controller reported.
And just a day before the fatal collision, another flight approaching Reagan was forced to abort its first landing and go around after a helicopter flew near its flight path, according to air traffic control audio.

Pilots had reported near-misses with helicopters at Reagan National Airport in the years before the deadly crash | CNN

[tomder55]

Reports say the controller was doing double duty .

The duties of handling air traffic control for helicopters and those for planes at Reagan National Airport on Wednesday night were combined before the deadly crash between an Army Black Hawk helicopter and an American Airlines regional jet, according to a person briefed on the staffing and an internal preliminary F.A.A. safety report.
That left an air traffic controller handling dual roles, according to the person briefed, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation into the crash.

Typically, one person handles both helicopter and plane duties after 9:30 p.m., when traffic at Reagan begins to lessen. But a supervisor combined those duties sometime before 9:30 p.m. on Wednesday and allowed one air traffic controller to leave, according to the person briefed, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation into the crash.

Helicopter May Have Deviated From Approved Path Before Deadly Crash - The New York Times

[tomder55]

The counterpoint

Despite their intent to expand the air traffic control hiring pool via DEI, the FAA has recently admitted they are woefully understaffed and that current air traffic controllers are severely overworked. One report found that only 3 of the 313 air traffic facilities around the nation met the FAA targets last year. This has forced the agency to admit safety could be jeopardized. To mitigate such danger, the agency has “at times halted departures or otherwise slowed down air traffic.”

I, along with Mountain States Legal Foundation, am litigating a class action lawsuit on behalf of more than 900 prospective air traffic controllers who studied, took the pre-employment exam, and passed the test with flying colors but were dismissed because of their skin color. Our lawsuit seeks justice for all air traffic control candidates who chose this career, dedicated their lives and education to it, and were summarily denied a job for no reason other than the color of their skin. In a system with only 14,000 air traffic controllers, purging a thousand of the next generation’s best and brightest was irresponsible and unsustainable.


DEI has jeopardized air safety - Washington Times

[jlisenbe]

That is eye-opening. Turns out that Mr. Trump was more accurate in his comments than we might have thought.

[tomder55]

There is no evidence that he is right in his conclusion about this accident . From all indications the controller gave instructions that the helicopter pilot did not follow.

Either way his impulse was horrible . There was plenty time to make the case after all the facts are in and maybe when all the bodies accounted for .

I keep digging .

The case mentioned has Andrew Brigida as the plaintiff . But it was joined into a class action suit. Brigida, is white and scored 100 percent on his training exam, said he was discriminated against because of his race when his application was rejected. The case is still ongoing. The courts rejected FAAs attempt to dismiss.
Brigida v. Buttigieg, 16-cv-2227 (DLF) | Casetext Search + Citator

Matthew Douglas-Cook ;an American Indian who also claims he was discriminated against is also a plaintiff .

[tomder55]

Before a helicopter can enter any busy commercial airspace, it must get the approval of an air traffic controller. In this case, the pilot asked for permission to use a specific, predetermined route that lets helicopters fly at a low altitude along the bank on the east side of the Potomac, a location that would have let it avoid the American Airlines plane.
The requested route — referred to as Route 4 at Reagan National — followed a specific path known to the air traffic controller and helicopter pilots. The helicopter confirmed visual sight of a regional jet and the air traffic controller instructed the helicopter to follow the route and fly behind the plane.
But the helicopter did not follow the intended route, the people briefed on the matter said.
Rather, it was above 300 feet, when it was supposed to be flying below 200 feet, and it was at least a half-mile off the approved route when it collided with the commercial jet

Clues From D.C. Plane Crash Suggest Multiple Failures in Aviation Safety - The New York Times

[tomder55]

out of all the news today about the crash ;there are 2 that stand out .

1 the helicopter did not follow instructions from ATC . Why ?
2. The ATC supervisor allowed a controller to leave early leaving the remaining controller to handle double duty at peak hours. Why ?

[jlisenbe]

My understanding is that the chopper pilot told the ATC that he had the jet in sight, but that they think he was looking at the wrong plane. And evidently there is usually a separate controller for helicopters and a different one to handle planes.

[tomder55]

sometimes I wish I had the skill to be a fiction author. plotline .....the day after new Defense and Transportation Secs are sworn in ;a commerical plane and a military helicopter collide in the nation's Capital .....

[tomder55]

The 12th Aviation Battalion, based at nearby Fort Belvoir, Va., has a decadeslong history of flying top officials in and out of hot spots, from Vietnam to Lebanon. Today, the unit operates primarily inside the U.S., and is also responsible for “continuity of operations plan,” to allow the government to continue operating should an event, like 9/11, take place.
It also ferries top military and other officials in and around the nation’s capital in helicopters known as “gold tops” because they are specially painted to highlight their mission. Gold tops have become in effect a high-end air taxi service for Washington VIPs, taking passengers to bases and other locations in Pennsylvania, Virginia and Maryland and in some cases, beyond.

Army Helicopter in Deadly Crash Served as ‘Taxi Service’ to Washington VIPs - WSJ

[tomder55]

My solution is very simple. Divert all commercial traffic to either Dulles or to Baltimore. Like the majority of the nation ;it is a 40minute+drive to hubs . Let the Washington elites live like the rest of the country . They can turn Reagan into a copter joy ride port or even better ;affordable housing for all the illegals Arlington is a semi-sanctuary city anyway
.‘ICE out of Arlington’: Fiery debate over whether policy change will help or hurt immigrants – NBC4 Washington

It is beyond silly to have a commercial airport so close to restricted air space
Consider that flight 93 the jet on 9-11 that crashed in PA was headed for Reagan .The hijackers had either the Capitol or the White House as a target .

Just tell members of Congress to get a ride to the other airports ..... Sorry for the inconvenience you elitist snobs . Even Clueless Joe took the train from DC when he was a Senator .

[tomder55]

Looks like Peter Doocy of Fox news is going to be a pitbull in the press corp no matter who is the Press Sec.

Trump has blamed DEI hiring of air traffic controllers for the DC air collision .

Doocy asked Karoline Leavitt
“If President Trump is telling us that air traffic controllers are staffed with unqualified controllers, these DEI hires who never should have been brought on, it’s not safe to fly commercially, is it?”


She replied

“The president was asked and answered this yesterday and he believes that it is still indeed safe and Americans should feel safe traveling our skies. With that said, two things can be true at the same time, And we certainly have seen the deterioration of federal hiring standards at the Federal Aviation Administration and the president wants to increase those standards, he wants pilots in this country who have the great responsibility of flying American citizens by the tens of millions every single day to be chosen for that position based on their merit and their skills and so the administration will continue to prioritize this.”

She is going to find it difficult to clarify his positions the more he speaks off the cuff. Trump needs to get together with his staff so they can present a unified message

[tomder55]

The Slimes took the time to investigate the crash . Their headline reads:

“Missteps, Equipment Problems and a Common but Risky Practice Led to a Fatal Crash”

Except that is not what happened according to their own account. They even go to a misdirect saying the air traffic controller was over worked. That may be true . But the controller was not responsible for the accident. The fault lies in the Blackhawk pilot. Army Capt. Rebecca Lobach was the pilot .

She was on a training mission under the supervision of Chief Warrant Officer 2 Andrew Loyd Eaves. According to the article she outranked him but he was the experienced pilot. Her assignment was to simulate flying members of Congress out of DC in an emergency.

The details appear late in the article .

As the helicopter approached the Key Bridge, from which it would fly south along the river, Warrant Officer Eaves stated that it was at 300 feet and descending to 200 feet — necessary because the maximum height for its route closer to the airport had dropped to 200 feet.
But even as it reached that juncture, Warrant Officer Eaves evidently felt obligated to repeat his instruction: The Black Hawk was at 300 feet, he said, and needed to descend.
Captain Lobach said she would. But two and a half minutes later, the Black Hawk still was above 200 feet — a dangerously high level.
Seconds after the Black Hawk crossed over the Tidal Basin, a shallow lake near the Washington Monument ringed by cherry trees, the controller informed the Army crew that a regional jet — Flight 5342 — was “circling” to Runway 33


Aviation experts said that development may have blindsided Captain Lobach.
Though she had flown four or five similar practice rides there over the years, she might have never confronted a landing on Runway 33, because it is used only 4 to 5 percent of the time.
In any case, investigators now believe that the word “circling” was not heard by the Black Hawk crew because one of them was pressing the microphone key to speak when the word came through their radios. If the key is depressed, the pilot can speak but not hear incoming communications.
Around 8:46 p.m., Warrant Officer Eaves responded to whatever he did hear of the circle-landing notification, using the call sign for his own flight: “PAT two-five has traffic in sight. Request visual separation.”
The controller gave his approval.
Visual separation is at the crux of an aviation concept known as see and avoid, which works exactly as it sounds. A pilot is meant to see neighboring air traffic, often without assistance from the controller, and avoid it by either hovering in place until the traffic passes or by flying around it in prescribed ways.

The Missteps That Led to a Fatal Plane Crash at Reagan National Airport - The New York Times

The F.A.A. said in its statement that “pilots are responsible for keeping themselves safely separated from other aircraft.”

Seeing a collision unfolding the controller warned the Blackhawk to'pass behind the plane'.
Instead of seeing and avoiding Flight 5342, Captain Lobach continued flying straight at it.

The Black Hawk was 15 seconds away from crossing paths with the jet. Warrant Officer Eaves then turned his attention to Captain Lobach.He told her he believed that air traffic control wanted them to turn left, toward the east river bank.
Turning left would have opened up more space between the helicopter and Flight 5342, which was heading for Runway 33 at an altitude of roughly 300 feet.

She did not turn left.

The only thing Eves got wrong was not taking control of the helicopter himself . But Lobach did outrank him .