[jlisenbe]

A couple of liberal voices capable of engaging in serious, thoughtful discussions on the issues of the day. I often wonder if such people really exist.

"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe something without evidence." Aldous Huxley

[tomder55]

Don't ask me. I am one of the most (classical) liberal persons in my circle acquaintances.

[jlisenbe]

How is classical liberalism defined?

Found on the web. "Classical liberalism is a political-philosophical doctrine that advocates individual freedom, limited government, and free markets."

I see what you mean. I would put myself in that camp as well. Sadly, the modern pack of liberals are far removed from that.

[jlisenbe]

You have taught me something this morning. "It differs from modern liberalism in its emphasis on laissez-faire economics and its view of the government as a necessary evil." I have known that liberalism is not what it used to be but had never bothered to see what it used to be.

[tomder55]

You know I refused to answer a similar question when Athos asked me to define socialism . That is because there is no short answer and any answer I would've given would've been incomplete and have holes easily attacked .

That being said ; classical liberallism was the philosopy of the founding of the US

It's common themes are free market ; close to laisse fare ....limited government interference in the market ;individual liberty ;property rights ,minimal government intrusion in the affairs of the individual .

Wealth is not derived from the government but from the free economic exchanges of the people . Government power comes from the people , Rights are not derived from the government Governments are only established to protect rights. Rights are natural (not derived by humans ) .
Governments are bound by the rule of laws that are created by the people .

To understand it further one has to understand the economic and political philosophies of the Enlightenment thinkers like John Locke ;Adam Smith and perhaps Immanual Kant (as well as the American founders like Jefferson )

But it gets more complicated because not all the Enlightenment thinkers held values I share . Some elevated humans too much and like Rousseau thought human nature basically good . He thought humans equal and inequalities are artificial constructs that governments needed to correct .

To get more detailed would require an essay's worth of writing .

Today's "liberals " are in my view illiberal They have coopted the word . To simplify it too much it comes down to rights . Classical liberals think of rights as what are called 'negative rights' ..... Rights someone has from the government .
Today's "liberals " aka progressives believe in rights the government must do for people ;like universal income .

[Curlyben]

I'm still keeping an eye on things, but more participants would be good..

[jlisenbe]

You know I refused to answer a similar question when Athos asked me to define socialism . That is because there is no short answer and any answer I would've given would've been incomplete and have holes easily attacked .

As an economic theory it's pretty straightforward, but it does seem to go beyond that with political implications.

[tomder55]

It is well beyond an economic theory and has it's roots at least as far as Plato's collectivism . And like Plato's political philosophy ;society is ruled by an elite group of decision makers . He believed in rule by philosophers.

For Plato, as for Solon, government exists for the benefit of all citizens and all social classes, and must mediate between potentially conflicting interests. Such a mediating force is exercised in the ideal city of the Republic by the philosopher-rulers.

Plato: Political Philosophy | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (utm.edu)

As Orwell notes the utopian ideal gets replaced by the pig rulers .

[jlisenbe]

. And like Plato's political philosophy ;society is ruled by an elite group of decision makers . He believed in rule by philosophers.

Technically, an oligarchy.