[Wondergirl]

I want to see a republican candidate begin to articulate the Judeo-Christian values that have carried us for three centuries.

Those poorly understood values that allowed our Christian European ancestors to dislocate and eradicate the indigenous peoples who already lived here?

[jlisenbe]

I mean those as well as the ones that established the foundation of "all men created equal", and that established that we are "endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", creeds which are based upon the Bible and which have carried us to being the freest, most prosperous, and most charitable nation in the history of the world. They were evidently quite well understood.

While what happened with the native peoples was tragic, it was basically what they had been doing to each other for many centuries. The great difference is that due to those Judeo/Christian beliefs, we have reversed course and are treating the native tribes in a much fairer manner. And being the only one here who has actually worked with a native tribe, I can absolutely testify to that.

[Wondergirl]

We'll just wait until those babies grow up and start or participate in a war so we can kill them then.

While what happened with the native peoples was tragic, it was basically what they had been doing to each other for many centuries.
Sooooo, no big deal. They were killing each other anyway.

[jlisenbe]

We'll just wait until those babies grow up and start or participate in a war so we can kill them then.

Would you prefer to have it your way and kill them before they are born? I guess that way the future preachers, scientists, professors, business leaders, and yes, even librarians, can be prevented from ever having a chance at life. Why? Well because people like you concocted a wild theory about breath and souls based upon, in your view, a made up story. Incredible.

While what happened with the native peoples was tragic, it was basically what they had been doing to each other for many centuries.
Sooooo, no big deal. They were killing each other anyway.

Do you not understand these words? "While what happened with the native peoples was tragic..." No person, no nation, and no librarian is perfect. We regret the past, but because we believed in the teachings of the Bible, we attempted to put it right. It's how life proceeds.

[Wondergirl]

We regret the past, but because we believed in the teachings of the Bible, we attempted to put it right. It's how life proceeds.

Why are we still killing?

[jlisenbe]

Because we are all born sinners. Sinning comes naturally to us.

[Wondergirl]

Because we are all born sinners. Sinning comes naturally to us.

That free will again!

Why have babies if they will lead a life full of sin?

And how many times during my counseling of clients have I heard the comment, "I wish I'd never been born!"

[jlisenbe]

This (Sinning comes naturally to us.) does not really lead to this (That free will again!).

Why have babies? For one thing, because we are told, "Be fruitful and multiply."

"I wish I'd never been born!" I imagine most people have at least one episode of such thinking. I don't think I ever have, but I imagine I've come close. Life can be really hard. It has been helpful to me to have felt useful in my adult life.

Regrets??? That's a different story.

[Wondergirl]

This (Sinning comes naturally to us.) does not really lead to this (That free will again!).

Free will: we have a choice -- much of the time, we can choose to sin OR choose not to sin.

[jlisenbe]

Much of the time, or all of the time?

[Wondergirl]

Much of the time, or all of the time?

If someone is e.g., mentally ill or autistic or has Down's syndrome or doesn't for some reason understand right from wrong, then "much of the time".

[jlisenbe]

So for everyone else, it is all of the time? And if so, do you have any scriptural support for that idea?

Just asking.

[Wondergirl]

So for everyone else, it is all of the time? And if so, do you have any scriptural support for that idea?

For Christians, all of the time?

Scriptural support: Ten Commandments.

[jlisenbe]

Scriptural support: Ten Commandments.

We have the commandments and yet do not follow them. You even advocate for routinely breaking the sixth one. But that would certainly be an example of free will. Unless, that is, you are unwittingly following the sovereignly ordained, predetermined will of God?

[Wondergirl]

We have the commandments and yet do not follow them.

God gave us free will.

You even advocate for routinely breaking the sixth one. But that would certainly be an example of free will. Unless, that is, you are unwittingly following the sovereignly ordained, predetermined will of God?

Sixth commandment: Thou shalt not commit adultery.

[jlisenbe]

In Exodus, the sixth commandment tells us not to commit murder.

God gave us free will.

Maybe.