[Wondergirl]

Let those righties blather on and on. They'll finally get tired as they wear down. Then offer them a comfy chair, coffee, and a yummy chocolate-covered donut or a blueberry muffin.

[jlisenbe]

That story is only an allegory anyway.

Congratulations on just destroying your own point. If the story is, as you allege, "only an allegory", then your point about how babies beginning to breathe amounts to becoming a living soul is merely...allegorical.

You are becoming quite good at defeating yourself.

[jlisenbe]

The way to defeat libtards on this issue is easy Attack them . Accuse them of wanting to kill babies up until the moment of birth In fact they want to wack em like baby seals as they are being born .

They of course deny it . "Late term abortion is rare and extreme" The same lie they used to say about abortion " We want to make it rare and safe " they would say . We know now that line was BS .

Challenge them to explain what restrictions they could accept .

Really good point, Tom. Repubs lay back far too often. They need to stay on the offensive against both the "journalists" and the liberal dems.

[Wondergirl]

Congratulations on just destroying your own point. If the story is, as you allege, "only an allegory", then your point about how babies beginning to breathe amounts to becoming a living soul is merely...allegorical.

You are becoming quite good at defeating yourself.

You missed it! I was chuckling at the points you were making.

[jlisenbe]

Yeah. I'm sure that was the case. The story is literal until, of course, it blows up on you, and then it becomes an allegory. It all amounts to a vain attempt to find support for your idea of killing unborn babies.

[Wondergirl]

Yeah. I'm sure that was the case. The story is literal until, of course, it blows up on you, and then it becomes an allegory. It all amounts to a vain attempt to find support for your idea of killing unborn babies.

Um, the first humans on Earth didn't look like Adam and Eve. It's a made-up story (the Hebrews were wonderful storytellers! c.f. the Old Testament) in order to make a point. Guess what that point was!

Oh, what do you plan to do with those born babies that no one wants?

[jlisenbe]

And once again you are runnin for them hills. You lost your point, so now it's time to change the subject.

You are trying to justify the killing of unborn children on the basis of what you regard to be a mythical story. Just unreal. Hard to be much more dishonest than that.

[Wondergirl]

And once again you are runnin for them hills. You lost your point, so now it's time to change the subject.

Nope. We're still on that point. Wake up!!! You keep hauling orphan strands of the discussion onto the table. That's why I lead with what you had said and then I respond.

(And you, of course, throw out an insult at me in your strong, manly way.)

[jlisenbe]

Your approach to this deserved to be insulted. You have tried to justify the killing of unborn children by using a point from a story you regard to be allegorical. It's just a thoroughly dishonest strategy. If you don't want to be called out on this kind of thing, then stop practicing it. You would be far better off to just admit you have no justification for abortion, but you're too liberal to oppose it.

[Wondergirl]

Actually, what I say is true. You are the literalist. So sad!

That fetus is part of that woman's body. It's her right to decide what to do about it.

[jlisenbe]

That fetus is part of that woman's body. It's her right to decide what to do about it.

Except, of course, that's not what you said. You appealed to the breath of God component of the Genesis story and even posted "Genesis 2:7". It would be so much better if you would be honest. So now you're running from it because you had to admit you consider the story to be strictly an allegory. I hope you realize how that makes you look. At least I won't have to counter that weak claim of yours anymore since you've managed to blow it up yourself.

As to your latest claim, very few knowledgeable people consider the unborn child to be genuinely a part of the woman's body since no other part of her body ever has a different genetic makeup, a different blood type, and frequently will even be a different gender, so your argument does not even start to hold water. It's just another fairy tale to justify your argument that killing unborn children is just fine.

[Wondergirl]

Except, of course, that's not what you said. You appealed to the breath of God component of the Genesis story and even posted "Genesis 2:7". It would be so much better if you would be honest.

You, my dear, are confused. You've dragged in too many strands to keep track of, and now you're tangling them. Adam and Eve and a baby's first breath have nothing to do with abortion.

[jlisenbe]

Adam and Eve and a baby's first breath have nothing to do with abortion.

I didn't bring it up in connection with abortion, YOU did. So once again you have blown up your own argument. My most sincere congratulations!!

[Wondergirl]

As to your latest claim, very few knowledgeable people consider the unborn child to be genuinely a part of the woman's body since no other part of her body ever has a different genetic makeup, a different blood type, and frequently will even be a different gender, so your argument does not even start to hold water. It's just another fairy tale to justify your argument that killing unborn children is just fine.

Apparently, you don't understand and know how pregnancy works. Please get pregnant, then we can talk again.

[jlisenbe]

From post 11. "Thank God it isn't human, a living soul, until it takes its first breath." You can't remember your own posts. And now you think a man can get pregnant. What a strange world you live in.

You are typical of every pro-abortionist I've ever talked with. If you were interested in the truth, you'd be pro-life, but since the truth will not support your belief, then you must lean against lies. It's one of several reasons I'm so glad I don't support that terrible belief.

[tomder55]

Vivek went after the silliness of having NBC hosting a Repub debate

GOP debate: Vivek Ramaswamy attacks NBC's Kristen Welker, other moderators | Watch (msn.com)

[tomder55]

The plain fact is that the GOP has a difficult issue with abortion. The victory of reversing Roe has become an electoral liability

In Va. Youngkin bet on a 15 week ban . As a result the legislature of the state went solid Dem.

In Ohio they voted in an amendment with no abortion restrictions . Since Roe ballots in states have gone 7 for 7 in favor of baby killing.

If the GOP does not address this soon it will impact national elections next year.

A lot of this is a money issue. The GOP does not have billionaire supporters the likes of George Soros ;Bill Gates etc. It is the messaging that is missing

Illinois Guv. J.B. Pritzker told the Slimes "If you're not talking about protecting women's reproductive rights as a Democrat, you're not doing it right."
Abortion Rights Fuel Big Democratic Wins, and Hopes for 2024 - The New York Times (nytimes.com)


As SBA Prolife America says :

It is long past due for the GOP to define where it stands on the issue nationally. It should not be difficult: the GOP must align itself with the national consensus that already exists, which is limiting late-term abortion when the child can feel excruciating pain. Consensus protections for the unborn must also be paired with compassion and resources for women. Emerging legislation in Congress such as Senator Marco Rubio’s and Congresswoman Ashley Hinson’s “Providing for Life Act” and “Standing with Moms Act” demonstrates this compassion by providing access to tangible resources to help women who are pregnant and in need. This contrast in compassion and real support for women must be better communicated moving forward. The GOP should contrast this stance of clarity and compassion with the Democrats, who do not support a single limit on abortion, celebrate abortion, and have long moved past the “pro-choice” position. Most Democratic Party elites only believe in one choice in a difficult situation, and that leaves no choice at all. The abortion industry pushes abortion on women; the pro-life movement cares for them. Their no-limits, uncompassionate position is deeply unpopular with the American people – our side must drive this contrast and communicate it to the voters. What yesterday’s election in Virginia also shows is that having a clear position and contrasting it isn’t enough – campaigns and the party must put real advertising dollars behind it, going toe-to-toe with the Democrats. Otherwise, the message is drowned out in deceptions and lies.

SBA-Ohio-Virginia-Results-Memo.pdf (sbaprolife.org)

It does not help that our apparent standard bearer is at best squishy on the issue ;and sometimes echos the Dems


Also the Repubs have to stop this talk of a national standard. They argued since 1973 that it should be decided at the state level. It will never pass nationally as Nikki said yesterday .Do we want another 40-50 years fighting on that hill ?

What to look for next year. Girded by their success Tuesday ;expect the Dems to get an abortion issue on every swing state 's ballot.

[jlisenbe]

the GOP must align itself with the national consensus that already exists, which is limiting late-term abortion when the child can feel excruciating pain.

What a chilling position. Are the repubs to say that killing an innocent human being is fine so long as the unborn child can feel no pain? As was seen here yesterday, the pro-abortion crowd's arguments fall apart when looked at with anything even approaching closeness. We must decide if human life is valuable or not. If it is, then abortion becomes difficult to defend. Sometimes leadership requires being able to thoroughly explain one's positions.

Do we want another 40-50 years fighting on that hill ?

It won't work when only one side is carrying the fight. It took over fifty years for England to do away with slavery. They made it because they knew they were on the right side of the moral issues and they made their case to the public. We must do likewise.

[jlisenbe]

I'll add a little something as my ramble for the day. This is not merely a political fight. We are competing for the moral/ethical foundation of our country and really the West. One side weeps over executing convicted murderers and yet celebrates the annual destruction of hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. They loudly proclaim the supposed rights of women to kill their unborn and of individuals living in deception to force others to use their chosen pronoun set. They want to force their moral values on our children in public schools while prohibiting teachers from even having a Bible on their desks. This contest of world views is enormously important and is one that will be expensive to lose in many ways. I want to see a republican candidate begin to articulate the Judeo-Christian values that have carried us for three centuries.

Done.

[tomder55]

I want to see a republican candidate begin to articulate the Judeo-Christian values that have carried us for three centuries.
Let me introduce Tim Scott. He will lose in the primaries and lose in the general if nominated . Reagan was as strong as they came . But all he really did was get the Christian block to vote as a block . He got nowhere on the abortion issue otherwise.

In a democracy it is a political fight. Make your moral case and then the electorate decides . When we can impose our values then I will join the other side .