[waltero]

Not in Jesus' case.

WG, I'm sitting next to the Jordan. I saw the whole thing. I just watched dozens of People repent and be baptized. I just witnessed Jesus being baptized like everyone else before him. And you're going to tell me [Not in this case] it was a charade?
John baptized with a baptism of repentance. Yes it was, it has to be. It's right in there, it's right in the Bible. Read it for yourself. "in this case." You're just going to tell me "Not in this case." And that's it?

Okay, Got it. Moving on to the next because why-answer.

Everybody dies. I know (because the Bible tells me so) that death is a result of sin... No ifs and's or buts. Jesus must have sinned because he died.

[Wondergirl]

Think about that. Why did Jesus die?

Look up and read 2 Cor. 5:21.

[waltero]

Why did Jesus die?

I'm not asking why. Why really has no relevance here.

The fact is Jesus died. It doesn't matter how he died, why he died. I'm not talking about that. Did Jesus Die? - Yes - SO now we know. we know just like every one of his disciples had known at the time.

Being that Sin kills and Jesus Died, He must have sinned. Doesnt even matter if he was raised from the dead. He still died!

[Wondergirl]

Read that Bible verse.

[waltero]

I read the entire chapter...Jesus still died...proving he was guilty of sin. After all, he was born into a sin nature. Everybody who is born of the sin Nature dies. Not only that they will, but they will sin... It's a given (the Bible tells us that).

If death is a product of sin, then Jesus must have sinned because he died. Or is this just another one of your "not in this case" moments?

[jlisenbe]

WG, I gotta tell ya, I just don't see how you could have picked a better, plainer verse.

"God made him who had no sin to be sin for us."

Ballgame over.

[waltero]

And again: If death is a product of sin, then Jesus must have sinned because he died. Or is this just another one of your "not in this case" moments?

"God made him who had no sin to be sin[b] for us."

This does absolutely nothing.

[jlisenbe]

"God made him who had no sin to be sin for us." Jesus had no sin.

John 10:17. For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.” Jesus did not die because of his sin. He laid his life down for ours.

[jlisenbe]

John 10:11. “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

John 10:15. even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

Galatians 2:20. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

[waltero]

You just can't help yourself can you JL. HE DIED!

Jesus did not die because of his sin.

But you just said;"God made him sin." Was it Jesus's sin or wasn't it?

[jlisenbe]

I didn't say anything. I quoted the Bible. "who had no sin." Jesus had no sin of his own. He was not a sinner in that respect. 1 Peter 2:22 say, "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth." So the only sin he had was our sin that He took upon Himself. As Isaiah said in chapter 53, "4Surely He took on our infirmitiesand carried our sorrows;byet we considered Him stricken by God,struck down and afflicted.5But He was pierced for our transgressions,He was crushed for our iniquities;the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,and by His stripes we are healed.c6We all like sheep have gone astray,deach one has turned to his own way;and the LORD has laid upon Himthe iniquity of us all."

As the scriptures I posted above clearly show, Jesus did not die so much as he laid down his life. It was a voluntary death he died, the death as a punishment for our sins. As the old song says, "I owed a debt I could not pay, He paid a debt He did not owe." What we are discussing here is the core of the Gospel.

[waltero]

Jesus did not die because of his sin.

Could you please Show me where it says this in the Bible? - you can't.
The fact is, that is exactly why Jesus died!!! You don't even understand what it is you are saying.

[jlisenbe]

In Isaiah 53. "For He was cut off from the land of the living;eHe was stricken for the transgression of My people."

because He has poured out His life unto death,and He was numbered with the transgressors.kYet He bore the sin of manyand made intercession for the transgressors.

“the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world” (John 1:29).

1 John 2:My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

How many more do you need?
And that doesn't count the chapter 53 passage from above.

[waltero]

You're not getting it JL. You said this: "Jesus did not die because of his sin." Now you are trying to read it into Scripture. When in Fact - Jesus did die because of his sin...It's the only sin he's got...He's got a lot...He Gots em from us.

[waltero]

I was showing WG how it looks when a person bases the entire subject matter with simple "Why answers."

Why:
"Well, then why did Jesus get baptized?"
"Why did Jesus Repent?"
"Why sin alone dies?"
"Why does God order Murder?"

When:
Jesus Did Get Baptized.
Jesus did Repent.
There is no death outside of sin.
God did order Human sacrifice.
God does change his mind.

There is something you need to realize. God is Unltamit authority. If Jesus was to sin, we would not know it as sin. What then? instead of God winning a decisive Victory over Sin he would only win a Marginal? You might think of it in those terms if you wish, but you would be wrong.

Jesus could have called His Angels to rescue him. Had he done so, It would have been a different story. God could have had the Hebrew nation totally and utterly destroyed and replaced them with Moses. Had God chose to do so, It would have been a different story...Same result but a different story.

He is GOD! He can change your story in so many different ways. An infinite number of ways. He could have already Changed the entire universe a dozen times over (just for you) and nobody'd be the wiser.

So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Time to put any possibility of Jesus, ever, sinning to rest.

[jlisenbe]

This was your contention. "Being that Sin kills and Jesus Died, He must have sinned." It is not correct.

John 8:46. "Which of you can truthfully accuse me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don’t you believe me?"

Do you, Walter?

[jlisenbe]

delete

[Wondergirl]

JL said, Jesus did not die because of his sin.

waltero said,

Could you please Show me where it says this in the Bible? - you can't.
The fact is, that is exactly why Jesus died!!! You don't even understand what it is you are saying.

2 Cor. 5:21.

Jesus died for our sins. We call this concept “substitutionary atonement.” Christ died instead of us. He didn’t die for Himself; He died in our place, as our substitute, to atone for our sins and allow us to enter into a right relationship with a holy God. The death of Christ as our substitute is the heart of the Gospel.

[waltero]

Blah, Blah, Blah Blaaah. And Jesus didn't Repent..blah, blah, blah, blaa.

The two of you have no idea what you're talking about.

"Being that Sin kills and Jesus Died, He must have sinned." It is not correct.

According to who?
If I was to answer my own question with why did he die then, you would respond in the way that you did. Okay, then why has everybody who has ever claimed to be the Messiah (hundreds) Die?

And you would simply repeat the same thing in many different ways. That still doesn't deter from the fact that they all died. And, the fact that you have no idea about anything having to do with John's baptism or Jesus being baptized in a baptism of repentance. Your simple response "Not in this case" does not cut it.

You keep talking as if you know why Jesus died. You continue trying to explain Jesus's relationship with sin that leads to death. Jesus In fact did die because of his sin. Jesus literally transferred our sins to himself. Our sins (our life of death) now belongs to him. Just as if he himself had sinned. He was marked for death. This is for you WG; Jesus did not pick up all the sins of the world. Not everybody wants to be saved. Not everybody is willing to give up their sin. Give everything that you treasure (which is sin) here in this world, You must give it to Jesus. Trust in Jesus, once you give up all your treasure, he will turn it into Gold.Go to the Cross, look at the man on the cross and you will immediately see why we call him sin.

[waltero]

Those who beheld the serpent on the pole lived because they saw their problem — the deadly serpent — nailed and put to death on the cross. In the same way, God loved the World... By giving his Son to us on a Cross. Now go pick up your Cross at the church nearest you.


Have fun, you Biscuite eaters!