[jlisenbe]

Didn’t choose what?

[Wondergirl]

My sexual orientation.

[jlisenbe]

I don’t know what your sexual orientation is and it’s really none of my business. I do wish you the best whatever it is.

[Wondergirl]

Sexual orientation is not an individual's choice.

[jlisenbe]

Sexual activity is a person’s choice. It still comes down to making Jesus our most prized possession for whom we would sacrifice anything and everything freely and happily. It’s the goal of my life.

[Wondergirl]

Sexual activity is not sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation is not an individual's choice.

[jlisenbe]

Sexual activity IS a choice. Seeking Christ as our deepest love is a choice.

[Wondergirl]

Sexual activity is a choice

Sexual orientation is not a choice.

[jlisenbe]

Has anyone argued otherwise? It does concern me that you have neglected to comment about choosing Christ. Any reason?

[Wondergirl]

I didn't find Christ. He found me.

[jlisenbe]

But you still had to make a decision to follow Him. Correct?

[Wondergirl]

Nope. He scooped me up in His arms and whispered in my ear His love for me. He never let me go.

[jlisenbe]

Sorry, but that is not Biblical. The call is always to follow Him. It requires a choice.

[Wondergirl]

Nope.

Luther: I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel, enlightens me with His gifts, sanctifies and keeps me in the true faith.

Choice? I can only say no and refuse that love.

[jlisenbe]

As I said, that is not biblical. When Jesus called someone he did so openly. They had a decision to make. Reference the rich young ruler. But perhaps you can point to a person in the Bible who had an experience similar to you.

Part two. I missed this. "Choice? I can only say no and refuse that love." That is still a decision you must make. God does not drag us into His Kingdom against our will. We must still say "Yes."

[Wondergirl]

You're misinformed. I'll stick with Luther and Calvin.

[jlisenbe]

Luther and Calvin did not say what you are professing to be true. I'll stick with the Bible.

I do certainly believe in the "keeping power" of Christ and His ability to hold me in His hand. In fact I agree with much of what you said, but to suggest that you became a Christian without an affirmation on your part is not Biblical and not in the tradition of Calvin or Luther.

[Wondergirl]

Yes, they did. Baptism, confirmation. No altar calls.

"Both Luther and Calvin believe that humans can do nothing to deserve or merit God's saving grace. People cannot justify themselves before God. Rather, God justifies the sinner through Christ. The situation is not that of grace being offered to, and accepted by, persons."

Calvin: "Total inability." This is the concept that it is impossible for the ordinary "natural" human to understand the Gospel's message. They are spiritually helpless. First, God must decide to intervene in the form of the third personality within the Trinity, the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, the person is lost forever.

[jlisenbe]

Are you suggesting that Luther, in his conversion, violated his own precepts?

"Nevertheless, I beat importunately upon Paul at that place, most ardently desiring to know what St. Paul wanted. At last, by the mercy of God, meditating day and night, I gave heed to the context of the words, namely, “In it the righteousness of God is revealed, as it is written, ‘He who through faith is righteous shall live.’” There I began to understand that the righteousness of God is that by which the righteous lives by a gift of God, namely by faith. And this is the meaning: the righteousness of God is revealed by the gospel, namely, the passive righteousness with which merciful God justifies us by faith, as it is written, “He who through faith is righteous shall live.” Here I felt that I was altogether born again and had entered paradise itself through open gates. There a totally other face of the entire Scripture showed itself to me."

Very clearly, Luther found what he had been actively seeking. Additionally, every major Christian in the NT made a conscious decision to follow Christ. From Peter to Matthew to Paul to Timothy to Lydia, they all made decisions to follow Him. To suggest we can be on a journey which had no beginning seems silly to me.

Do you agree with all of the description you posted of Calvin's beliefs?

[Wondergirl]

You are totally misreading and misunderstanding Luther's words.