[Athos]

If you think America has never been great, then you've been drinking the kool-aid far too long.

Let's see - America enslaved and then discriminated against human beings for 400 years because of the color of their skin.

America encountered people already living here and proceeded to exterminate as many as possible so the "Americans" could take their land and live here.

WHO is drinking the kool-aid?

[Wondergirl]

1. One man is not the republican party, so your argument has fallen flat on its face. 2. Even worse, what you are saying about Krause is not true. So once again, you are providing a perfect example of my principle. Thanks!!

Do some research. Go to your public library. Ask a reference librarian for help.

You are personally okay with children and teens having access to books about sex education, race, LGBTQ+, etc.?

[jlisenbe]

You conveniently failed to mention that America saved the world's bacon in TWO wars and stood alone against totalitarian oppression for the latter half of the 20th century.

Let's see - America enslaved and then discriminated against human beings for 400 years because of the color of their skin.

And then went to great extremes to right those wrongs. Another little detail.

[Wondergirl]

You conveniently failed to mention that America saved the world's bacon in TWO wars and stood alone against totalitarian oppression for the latter half of the 20th century.

And now we are becoming a totalitarian nation.

And then went to great extremes to right those wrongs. Another little detail.

And those wrongs have yet to be righted.

[jlisenbe]

Do some research. Go to your public library. Ask a reference librarian for help.

Too late! I've already done the research. What you wrote about Kraus is not true.

You are personally okay with children and teens having access to books about sex education, race, LGBTQ+, etc.?

That's a WIIIDDDDE ranging question. In short, I think their parents should have the say in that.

Do you think students should be told that homosexuality is not genetically based? That there is no evidence of a genetic base for TG? That men and women are clearly made for heterosexual activity and not homosexual? Should they be told those things?

[jlisenbe]

And now we are becoming a totalitarian nation.

We might agree on that one.

And those wrongs have yet to be righted.

Are you serious?? Really?

[Wondergirl]

Too late! I've already done the research. What you wrote about Kraus is not true.

Of course, it's true! I'm chuckling about your "research". I just discovered even Wikipedia agrees with my research about his ultra-conservative beliefs.

***In October 2021, Krause, as chair of the House Committee on General Investigating, launched an investigation into Texas school boards, asking them whether a list of 850 books on subjects of race and sexuality were in Texas libraries and classrooms. The list included Pulitzer Prize-winning novels, best sellers, and other award-winning works of literature,^[20] many of them written by women, people of color, or LGBTQ authors.^[21] This list included William Styron's The Confessions of Nat Turner, Ta-Nehisi Coates's Between the World and Me, and Isabel Wilkerson's Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents.^[20][22] The Texas State Teachers Association described Krause's investigation as a politically motivated "witch hunt"^[20] and Texas Democrats denounced it.^[22] Krause refused to explain how the list of 850 books was created, which school districts received the letter, or why he was seeking this information.^[22] Seven Texas school districts confirmed receiving the letter from Krause, and several indicated that they would decline to respond.^[22]***

That's a WIIIDDDDE ranging question. In short, I think their parents should have the say in that.

Yes, parents...not lawmakers or even teachers/principals. The books should be available.

Do you think students should be told that homosexuality is not genetically based? That there is no evidence of a genetic base for TG? That men and women are clearly made for heterosexual activity and not homosexual? Should they be told those things?

Are you a book banner? Please do research. You're stuck on a literal understanding of the early chapters of Genesis.

[jlisenbe]

Are you a book banner? Please do research. You're stuck on a literal understanding of the early chapters of Genesis.

Why did you dodge the question?

Of course, it's true! I'm chuckling about your "research". Even Wikipedia agrees with my research about his ultra-conservative beliefs.

You made no claims about his "ultra-conservative" beliefs. You made false claims about banning books.

Porn should not be available. Books that make untrue and unscientific claims about LGBT issues should not be available.

Here is the Wikipedia link. It makes no mention of Krause proposing a book ban. Once again, you are proving the principle I mentioned above. Thanks again!! You are never-ending spring of confirmations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Krause

[Wondergirl]

I added more to my post that you responded to. Please check back.

[Wondergirl]

Why did you dodge the question?

According to Genesis, God created mankind as binary. But then, using their free will, Adam and Eve ate from the tree and opened up unlimited possibilities, including for human sexuality.

You made no claims about his "ultra-conservative" beliefs. You made false claims about banning books.

Read my additions in my post above.

Porn should not be available. Books that make untrue and unscientific claims about LGBT issues should not be available.

Why shouldn't porn be available? All LGBT issues and pov should be available.

[jlisenbe]

Don't need to. You quoted from the Wiki article I linked to and already read. There is no mention of a book ban anywhere. Are you unable to understand that???

According to Genesis, God created mankind as binary. But then, using their free will, Adam and Eve ate from the tree and opened up unlimited possibilities, including for human sexuality.

You are still dodging the question. Your silly speculation from Genesis, affirmed NOWHERE in the Bible and actually contradicted MANY places in the Bible, is not an answer.

Why shouldn't porn be available? All LGBT issues and pov should be available.

At least you are now on record as believing that children should read porn. Amazing.

[Wondergirl]

Don't need to. You quoted from the Wiki article I linked to and already read. There is no mention of a book ban anywhere. Are you unable to understand that???

Please reread my post when I first mentioned Matt Krause.

You are still dodging the question. Your silly speculation from Genesis, affirmed NOWHERE in the Bible and actually contradicted MANY places in the Bible, is not an answer.

Sooooooo, what transpired when they ate of the forbidden fruit?

At least you are now on record as believing that children should read porn. Amazing.

Wow! Please quote my saying that.

[jlisenbe]

Please reread my post when I first mentioned Matt Krause.

Enough of this garbage. This is what you posted. "Texas lawmaker Matt Krause has a list of 850 books that he believes should be banned." That is a false statement which you cannot verify.

Sooooooo, what transpired when they ate of the forbidden fruit?

Sin. Ruin. Separation from God. Destruction. War. Hatred. Violence. Lying. Sexual sin. Should those be considered normal as well?

Wow! Please quote my saying that.

Here it is. "Why shouldn't porn be available?" It would be available to be READ!

If you are going to continue this childishness, I'll be out. Get serious or go do something else.

[jlisenbe]

And why are you afraid to answer this question? "Do you think students should be told that homosexuality is not genetically based? That there is no evidence of a genetic base for TG? That men and women are clearly made for heterosexual activity and not homosexual? Should they be told those things?"

[Wondergirl]

Enough of this garbage. This is what you posted. "Texas lawmaker Matt Krause has a list of 850 books that he believes should be banned." That is a false statement which you cannot verify.

Your Wikipedia link says that.

Sin. Ruin. Separation from God. Destruction. War. Hatred. Violence. Lying. Sexual sin. Should those be considered normal as well?

Normal? I said unlimited possibilities.

Here it is. "Why shouldn't porn be available?" It would be available to be READ!

You or your kids or wife or grandkids have never read (or looked at) porn?

If you are going to continue this childishness, I'll be out. Get serious or go do something else.

I'm beginning to side with Athos.

[jlisenbe]

First off, my apologies. I got carried away with a couple of my comments.

The link does not even mention a ban. Period. Why you continue with that is just beyond me. You were flat wrong and are too proud, I guess, to admit it.

I've done a number of things that were wrong. I don't recommend them to others as you do with this. And to suggest that porn be made available to children ("Why shouldn't porn be available?") is sick beyond description.

I said unlimited possibilities.

For bad and sinful activities. That is true. But you are trying to link that to homosexual behavior and suggest it is allowed because, of all things, the fall of man in Genesis. It's truly a bizarre, desperate argument.

You're siding with Athos?. I can see that for sure. You both cannot admit when you are wrong.

And you are still afraid to answer this question. "Do you think students should be told that homosexuality is not genetically based? That there is no evidence of a genetic base for TG? That men and women are clearly made for heterosexual activity and not homosexual? Should they be told those things?"

[Wondergirl]

First off, my apologies. I got carried away with a couple of my comments.

Thank you.

The link does not even mention a ban. Period. Why you continue with that is just beyond me. You were flat wrong and are too proud, I guess, to admit it.

His list is to have evidence so a ban can be established. Google "Matt Krause 850" (without quote marks).

I've done a number of things that were wrong. I don't recommend them to others as you do with this. And to suggest that porn be made available to children ("Why shouldn't porn be available?") is sick beyond description.

Please quote me where I said porn should be available to children.

For bad and sinful activities. That is true. But you are trying to link that to homosexual behavior and suggest it is allowed because, of all things, the fall of man in Genesis. It's truly a bizarre, desperate argument.

Not only for bad and sinful activities. The universe was perfect before the Fall. It isn't now.

You're siding with Athos?. I can see that for sure. You both cannot admit when you are wrong.

That's because we aren't. Our words and their meanings get twisted, too often deliberately.

And you are still afraid to answer this question. "Do you think students should be told that homosexuality is not genetically based? That there is no evidence of a genetic base for TG? That men and women are clearly made for heterosexual activity and not homosexual? Should they be told those things?"

I have too many good friends and a few relatives who don't fit your strict binary rule. I'm betting you do too.

[jlisenbe]

His list is to have evidence so a ban can be established.

That is pure conjecture. It has never been established and your own links provide not one shred of evidence. Once again you are providing a classic example of my principle that your ideology is driving you rather than any evidence you can find. Can you see that you have done so repeatedly just this afternoon alone?

Please quote me where I said porn should be available to children.

OK. For the third and final time, here it is. "Why shouldn't porn be available?" The context was schoolchildren. You are guilty.

That's because we aren't. Our words and their meanings get twisted, too often deliberately.

See what I mean? And that is not what happens with you. You write something and then when it's quoted, you try and extricate yourself from your own trap. It would be fairly easy to simply say, "That's not what I meant to say. I meant that xxxxxxx." Instead, you seem to think you can talk your way out of it. Not working at all.

I have too many good friends and a few relatives who don't fit your strict binary rule. I'm betting you do too.

You are still dodging the question. It has all the appearance of intellectual cowardice. Perhaps you can give a better explanation of your running from this question. And by the way, I was not putting forward any rule at all. I was referring to very plain and clear evidence from science which you seem to be afraid of. Why is it that libs always want to follow the science until, of course, they don't like where the science is leading them?

[Wondergirl]

That is pure conjecture. It has never been established and your own links provide not one shred of evidence. Once again you are providing a classic example of my principle that your ideology is driving you rather than any evidence you can find. Can you see that you have done so repeatedly just this afternoon alone?

Just as I figured...

OK. For the third and final time, here it is. "Why shouldn't porn be available?" The context was schoolchildren. You are guilty.

See what I mean? And that is not what happens with you. You write something and then when it's quoted, you try and extricate yourself from your own trap. It would be fairly easy to simply say, "That's not what I meant to say. I meant that xxxxxxx." Instead, you seem to think you can talk your way out of it. Not working at all.

Wow! Do you knit and crochet too? Maybe are part of the church quilting group?

You are still dodging the question. It has all the appearance of intellectual cowardice. Perhaps you can give a better explanation of your running from this question. And by the way, I was not putting forward any rule at all. I was referring to very plain and clear evidence from science which you seem to be afraid of. Why is it that libs always want to follow the science until, of course, they don't like where the science is leading them?

Please get to know some LGBT+ community members, especially transgender women, and listen to their life stories.

[jlisenbe]

Please get to know some LGBT+ community members, especially transgender women, and listen to their life stories.

Still running. You're at about the five mile marker now.

Just as I figured...

Wow! Do you knit and crochet too? Maybe are part of the church quilting group?

More examples of what I said earlier. It bears repeating. "Many people just blindly accept whatever they read as long as it feeds a particular ideological narrative. It's the ideology that is, in their view, important. Truth has become cheap." So when you are cornered by your own words, rather than admit being wrong or even just clarifying your meaning, we instead get comments such as those.

Well, this thread has hopefully come to a merciful end.