[jlisenbe]

Well I certainly hope you told God that He needs to consult with you in the future before He creates anything else. You need to start a business. "Wondergirl's Creation Advisors Service"

[Wondergirl]

Well I certainly hope you told God that He needs to consult with you in the future before He creates anything else. You need to start a business. "Wondergirl's Creation Advisors Service"

No, that's not how this works. Then I'd be a goddess. I'm just His soundingboard and daily ask for His help.

[jlisenbe]

Who gives God advice on creating. What a responsibility!

[Wondergirl]

Who gives God advice on creating. What a responsibility!

Noooooo, you misunderstand! He does what He does. I simply listen, am submissive and agreeable.

[jlisenbe]

So God told you that Paul was gay?

[Athos]

This is what I hate about these discussions. When your allegory has no moral, then you deny that allegories have morals.

I HAVE NEVER DENIED THAT ALLEGORIES DON'T HAVE MORALS. WHY IN THE WORLD DO YOU KEEP INSISTING I DID SAY THAT? Yeah, I put that in caps for emphasis.

"a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one." If that is not true, then what on earth is the purpose of an allegory?????

THAT IS TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I NEVER SAID IT WASN'T. One of us (or both) has a real problem communicating.

Try that in a court of law. "Your Honor, the defendant is innocent because my mind/brain/intellect/experiences say so."

THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT A DEFENSE ATTORNEY DOES IN A COURT OF LAW!!!! SO DOES A PROSECUTING ATTORNEY. EACH THEN DOES THEIR THING DESCRIBING WHY THEY BELIEVE WHAT THEY BELIEVE AND THE JURY VOTES ON IT. In effect, you insist on creating a scenario that isn't true.

An opinion is NOT absolute truth in every circumstance. Neither is what you or I believe about any particular circumstance, or philosophy, or belief, or ANYTHING. Thoughts, opinions, beliefs are ALWAYS subject to adjustment. You may have some beliefs that are always true - i.e., 2+2=4, but the truth is not because of your thought/belief/opinion, it is true because of the truth inherent in the equation. It's truth exists no matter what you or I think about it.

It's that we realize that our own views can frequently be wrong due to a lack of knowledge that we appeal to higher sources.

Good! That's absolutely true! Of course our thoughts, views, beliefs, opinions can be wrong. And naturally we try to discover the truth by looking elsewhere. It's also possible that we DO believe our thoughts, views, beliefs, opinions, are NOT wrong, but right. In that case, we DON'T look elsewhere, although the truth can happen to us unbidden.

You admit it above when you say I should be doing research to back up your assertions.

Of course I do. Why else would I suggest you research it yourself? I certainly wouldn't do it so you could prove my assertion false.

It's an obvious admission that we are all subject to error.

No, it's not an obvious admission of error. Why would I do that? It doesn't make sense. What it is, is the exact opposite - a means (a link) for you to acknowledge that what I'm posting is correct!

Even worse, you are saying that your source of authority is...Athos!

I think I'm beginning to see the confusion. My source of authority is my mind. That's true. It's also your source of authority. But you see "source of authority" differently than I do. I do NOT see it as the end-all and be-all of existence. I see it as WHAT THE SOURCE OF MY BELIEF IS. I acknowledge that it can be changed.

However, you see that source of authority for the Bible being the Bible itself. Why? Because that is what you believe. Is there an inherent truth in the Bible the way an inherent truth exists in the mathematical equation? No.

Here's one way of examining the premise (not the only way). Wherever you go, people will always without exception agree that 2+2=4. That is not true of the Bible. Wherever you go, you will find many beliefs about the Bible - from total disbelief to total belief. From literal to not literal. If you want to believe Genesis is literal, that is easily challenged as I have done here on these pages. Talking reptiles, world-wide floods, six days of creation, etc. -----------

True enough. That being the case, you appeal to something other than your own powers of reasoning in your search for truth.

DEFINITELY, ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The key is MY OWN POWERS. I know they are limited. However, I do NOT appeal to another way of knowing other than reason. If something cannot pass the test of reason, I tend not to believe it.

So aside from your own ideas, is there anything outside of you that can settle an argument?

Of course. By now I hope you realize that I can believe an argument based in truth and reason.

Exactly. And why? Because I was confronted with that which is higher than I am.(Adjusting his idea about God from all love to a God of justice)

Not exactly. First you believed that God is all love. Then you read something that said God is also a God of justice. So you adjusted your thinking, and your adjusted belief is that God is a God of love and justice. God didn't tell you that. You said you read it somewhere.

[jlisenbe]

So you agree that allegories have moral teachings. Great! What is the moral teaching of the Genesis story?

Read it somewhere? Yes, in the Bible.

[Athos]

So you agree that allegories have moral teachings. Great! What is the moral teaching of the Genesis story?

Read it somewhere? Yes, in the Bible.

That's it? That's your entire reply to all I've written?

[jlisenbe]

You write a lot. Too much.

I just wonder why you won’t answer my question.

[Wondergirl]

So you agree that allegories have moral teachings. Great! What is the moral teaching of the Genesis story?

Read it somewhere? Yes, in the Bible.

And that moral teaching is what??? (I think you don't understand the meaning of moral.)

[jlisenbe]

Did God tell you that Paul was gay?

[Wondergirl]

Did God tell you that Paul was gay?

God blessed me with a good brain and an ability to carefully research. "Was" is not the correct verb. "Could have been" is a better choice.

[jlisenbe]

Ok. I thought that after God gave you the real story on creation, that maybe you got the scoop on Paul.

[Wondergirl]

Ok. I thought that after God gave you the real story on creation, that maybe you got the scoop on Paul.

Well, I said I wouldn't tell anyone, not even you. And that woman named Ruth! Wow! It's amazing that there has been an LGBTQ+ community since the beginning of time.

[jlisenbe]

How sick. Now you have a woman, twice married to a man, and yet, according to you (but certainly not the Bible) having a lesbian relationship with her mother in law??? Hopefully there is some other meaning to be attached to your statement, though I can't imagine what. I can guarantee you one thing. God did not tell you that. It would seem that your political and social persuasions have become your god.

Perhaps you were joking??

[talaniman]

LOL! I can imagine a God explaining creation to a dumb human. Like a parent talking goo goo gah gah to a baby. Not much has changed since ancient times. Man still doesn't know or understand where he came from but plenty of speculation in Gods name.

[Wondergirl]

How sick. Now you have a woman, twice married to a man

God ordained marriage between one man and one woman. But but but what about, e.g., Solomon who had 700 wives and 300 concubines?

[jlisenbe]

You are running from your outrageous Ruth story. Wonder why?

At any rate, Solomon was clearly out of God's will. How do I know that? Because I have read the Bible.

1 Kings 11: 1ff. King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh’s daughter—Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. 2 They were from nations about which the Lord had told the Israelites, “You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods.” Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love. 3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray. 4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the Lord his God, as the heart of David his father had been. (Note: Just because a Christian loves someone is no indication they are to be married.)

Dt. 17. 14“When you come to the land that the LORD your God is giving you, and you possess it and dwell in it and then say, ‘I will set a king over me, like all the nations that are around me,’ 15you may indeed set a king over you whom the LORD your God will choose. One from among your brothers you shall set as king over you. You may not put a foreigner over you, who is not your brother. 16Only he must not acquire many horses for himself or cause the people to return to Egypt in order to acquire many horses, since the LORD has said to you, ‘You shall never return that way again.’ 17And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away, nor shall he acquire for himself excessive silver and gold.

He disobeyed God, and it turned out bad. When I was in Bible college, they used to tell us this. "For the man of God, beware of three areas: gold, gals, and glory." Solomon certainly missed it on the first two counts.

[Athos]

You write a lot. Too much.

Certainly too much for you. When you don't read what I write, there's no hope for you learning the truth.

I just wonder why you won’t answer my question.

Are you sure I haven't answered it? If it's about your long list of Bible verses, the answer is coming.

[Wondergirl]

At any rate, Solomon was clearly out of God's will. How do I know that? Because I have read the Bible.

Me too. What about Solomon's father David -- or Jacob or Abraham....?