[jlisenbe]

Christianity is about relationship that cannot be achieved with repartition

"Repartition"?

[Wondergirl]

Christianity is about relationship that cannot be achieved with repartition

The repetition is for the person praying, not for (to influence?) the One being prayed to.

[Athos]

As for praising Mary, all we are doing is what the angels did . "Hail, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you; blessed are you among women."(Luke 1:28)

We believe in the intercession of saints . Mary being the most important saint because she is pure and "favored" means that Mary's intercession is the most powerful and important.

“He has brought down the powerful from their thrones, and lifted up the lowly; he has filled the hungry with good things, and sent the rich away empty.”


Luke's rendering of the Magnificat of Mary and the Bethlehem narrative with the inn having no room for Mary and Joseph, and the lowly shepherds being the first witnesses of the new baby as hope for the world born in a manger with his homeless parents is not the conquering messiah many were hoping for, but one from the bottom of society in a time of political unrest and massive inequality — sort of like now.

Any gospel that isn’t good news for the poor is simply not the gospel of Jesus Christ. Period. Limited human comprehension of the world’s greatest mysteries is less important than what can transform lives and the world.

[jlisenbe]

Limited human comprehension of the world’s greatest mysteries is less important than what can transform lives and the world.

If human comprehension of this great mystery is indeed limited, then how can anyone make any hard and fast statements of truth on the nature of the Gospel?

Poor in what respect?

[tomder55]

my limited comprehension of the Good News is that it is for all. Luke 2:10

[jlisenbe]

My limited comprehension would agree with you.

[Athos]

my limited comprehension of the Good News is that it is for all. Luke 2:10

Your limited comprehension is more than enough for Luke's plain statement.

[jlisenbe]

Or for this. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have life eternal."

Or this. "Look unto me and be saved, all ye ends of the earth, for I am God and there is no other."

[Wondergirl]

Or for this. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have life eternal."

If someone has never heard or can't comprehend the Gospel message because of mental illness, a developmental disability, cognitive deficits, then what?

[jlisenbe]

If someone has never heard or can't comprehend the Gospel message because of mental illness, a developmental disability, cognitive deficits, then what?

Well, let's see. You have asked that question a good five or six times, so much that it is difficult to see what your point is. But when you read this passage from Romans 1, what does it say to you? "19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

[Wondergirl]

Well, let's see. You have asked that question a good five or six times, so much that it is difficult to see what your point is.

...because I have a serious concern about several loved ones.

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

Yet God Who extends unconditional love takes frailities in understanding into consideration.

[jlisenbe]

God Who extends unconditional love takes frailities in understanding into consideration.

It is generally accepted that God does not hold children or those with mental issues accountable.

[tomder55]

Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them.
Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

[jlisenbe]

...because I have a serious concern about several loved ones.

I can sympathize with that. I'm in the same situation.

[Athos]

If someone has never heard or can't comprehend the Gospel message because of mental illness, a developmental disability, cognitive deficits, then what?

Even better - if someone has heard the Gospel, comprehends it, and decides not to believe that Jesus is the only way to "life eternal", then what?

Rhetorical question.

We already know the bizarre answer of the Christian fundamentalist. Even the Catholic Church, the oldest and largest Christian denomination tracing all the way back to Peter and the words of Jesus himself, does not hold that belief. The Catholic Church holds itself to be the fullest answer but never the only answer.

[tomder55]

Catholics believe that Jesus is the only way to eternal life . Vatican Ii clarified that one doesn't have to be Catholic to obtain eternal life. One living their life conforming to the way of the Lord is saved . But the even better news is that the truly repentant can obtain salvation even up to the moment of death Luke 23 39-43

[Athos]

Catholics believe that Jesus is the only way to eternal life

The Catholic Church teaches nothing of the sort. Your statement puts Gandhi in hell among all the others who led exemplary lives without believing in Jesus.

Vatican II clarified that one doesn't have to be Catholic to obtain eternal life.

They did more than "clarify". They rejected their own dogma that "there is no salvation outside the Church".

Vatican II document Lumen Gentium, 16) states:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.

Vatican II’s pastoral constitution on the Church in the modern world, Gaudium et Spes, taught that conscience is “the sanctuary of man, where he is alone with God, whose voice echoes within him”. The CChurch hedged on this, claiming a conscience must be properly "formed".

In Amoris Laetitia , Pope Francis maintained that Catholic consciences "must be informed but not replaced". And he stressed the distinction between one’s conscience—where God reveals himself—and one’s ego that thinks it can do as it pleases.

One living their life conforming to the way of the Lord is saved.

How do you define "conforming to the way of the Lord"?

But the even better news is that the truly repentant can obtain salvation even up to the moment of death Luke 23 39-43

And Matthew 20:9

[tomder55]

John 14 6 I've done more than my share of religious discussion in this thread for the year . Happy New Year

[Athos]

John 14 6 I've done more than my share of religious discussion in this thread for the year . Happy New Year

Tom, so true to form.

When you receive posts that show you to be wrong as in this case, you run away like a scared rabbit. I first noticed that in your inability to defend your take on socialism, meaning you were clueless about it. Now it's the Catholic Church. A man would have acknowledged his errors.

The lesson for you is to not speak about that which you know nothing.

[jlisenbe]

Even better - if someone has heard the Gospel, comprehends it, and decides not to believe that Jesus is the only way to "life eternal", then what?

1. John 14:6 – Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
2. Acts 4:12 – And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
3. John 3:16 – For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
4. Rom. 10:9 – Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
5. 2 Cor. 4:4 – In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
6. John 3:36 – Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
7. Acts 10:43 – To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.
8. John 8:28 - "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

1. And then there is the Matthew 25 passage which has been posted many times.

Athos does not like to believe what Jesus said, nor any scriptures which do not agree with his preconceived ideas. That is his choice, but a day is coming when Jesus will also exercise His choice. What a somber warning.