[jlisenbe]

It is my fervent hope you can walk in the shoes of a minority, and tell me how perfect the world is. Maybe it's better here than elsewhere in the world, no doubt, but don't try to feed me the crap sandwich about what I or any minority yearns for.

I haven't suggested anything is perfect. I did not say that minorities were yearning for anything. How long have you had these reading difficulties? At any rate, your casual disregard of the beauty of personal freedom is pathetic.

Yet Ahmaud Arbery was chased by white two guys in a truck and shot dead while out jogging. "Why?" they were asked later. "He was a black man running down our road," was the answer.

Yes, and a black cop IN CHICAGO gunned down an unarmed white man. Anecdotal stories get us nowhere. The truth is, black people are FAR more likely to be gunned down by another black person than by a white racist. The latter is relatively rare. The former happens many times a day, but people don't care about them since they don't advance your liberal political narrative.

But it isn't breathing.

If you were female and had been impregnated by a selfish, demanding husband/boyfriend (especially one who had no interest in birth control), a rapist, a family member (incest), birth control failure, etc., you'll have little or no interest in nine months of nausea and vomiting, headaches, weight gain, backaches, frequent need to pee, constipation, swollen ankles, constant fatigue, being uncomfortable no matter the position, et al. (yeah, there's more).

Thus, abortion is the solution.

I'm sure you're right. Better to kill the irritating, aggravating little "thing" than to have to put up with so much discomfort. After all, it's not even breathing. Pull off arms and remove. Pull off legs and remove. Pull off head and remove. Remove remaining torso. Carefully reassemble the parts on the table to make sure you got all of it (frequently done just like that) because after all, being nauseated or having constipation is simply asking too much in exchange for bringing a life into the world.

For that matter, you will next be advocating to kill the ones born physically disabled or mentally challenged. You'll find some arbitrary measure about as meaningless as "not breathing" to justify it.

But at least you have now been honest enough to admit that you are in favor of abortion.

[Athos]

It is my fervent hope you can walk in the shoes of a minority, and tell me how perfect the world is. Maybe it's better here than elsewhere in the world, no doubt, but don't try to feed me the crap sandwich about what I or any minority yearns for.

Perfect reply.

If you were female and had been impregnated by a selfish, demanding husband/boyfriend (especially one who had no interest in birth control), a rapist, a family member (incest), birth control failure, etc., you'll have little or no interest in nine months of nausea and vomiting, headaches, weight gain, backaches, frequent need to pee, constipation, swollen ankles, constant fatigue, being uncomfortable no matter the position, et al. (yeah, there's more).

Another perfect reply.

[jlisenbe]

On the subject of replies, maybe you can finally get around to replying to this.

"Do you mean like I have done several times already and you have yet to do? But I'll tell you what. I will be happy to restate my view based upon your guarantee that it will be followed by you doing likewise. Agreed?"

[Athos]

On the subject of replies, maybe you can finally get around to replying to this.

"Do you mean like I have done several times already and you have yet to do? But I'll tell you what. I will be happy to restate my view based upon your guarantee that it will be followed by you doing likewise. Agreed?"

At last count, I have stated my position clearly and in simple terms at least 5 times, probably many more.

You have yet to state your position clearly and in simple terms even ONE time.

I may give you another chance. I'll consider it.

[jlisenbe]

Don't bother. You won't do it. I had to repost the question since you plainly ignored it the first time. It would require you to actually state your views, and you seem to run from that, but I'm ready whenever you're ready. I have no confidence in your willingness to actually do what you say, but hopefully I'm wrong. Just let me know if you ever get ready

At last count, I have stated my position clearly and in simple terms at least 5 times,

I laughed when I read that. Talk about inflation!!

[Wondergirl]

.I'm sure you're right. Better to kill the irritating, aggravating little "thing" than to have to put up with so much discomfort.

And of course, you would be happy to carry your rapist's child for nine months. Once it's born, then what? (And I can't wait to watch and listen to you being pregnant for nine months!)

[jlisenbe]

So you make an appeal to the 1/10th of 1% of abortions? If you could get an exception for rape/incest, would you outlaw the others? If not, then why such a narrow appeal?

"Once it's born, then what?" By your rationale, if it proves to be too much trouble or discomfort, then get rid of it.

[Wondergirl]

So you make an appeal to the 1/10th of 1% of abortions? If you could get an exception for rape/incest, would you outlaw the others? If not, then why such a narrow appeal?

If there are so many abortions, as you claim, I'm betting they are done during the first four months (women usually don't even realize they're pregnant during the first couple of months) of a pregnancy that was caused by a selfish, demanding husband/boyfriend (especially one who has no interest in birth control), a rapist, a family member (incest), birth control failure, etc. Very few women will put up with what happens during those nine months and then say, "Shucks! I guess I don't want this kid after all."

[talaniman]

I haven't suggested anything is perfect. I did not say that minorities were yearning for anything. How long have you had these reading difficulties? At any rate, your casual disregard of the beauty of personal freedom is pathetic.

Yeah there is no housing, or job discrimination in America, and institutional racism is a made up fiction as well as the accounts of Jim Crow and James Crow ESQ. are. People fought and died to get that crap straight and the Klan no longer bothers with hoods.

The next boss I have I will give him my schedule I want to work. Your facts of the case is what's pathetic, and crackers assassinating a jogger is pathetic, and if not for a video who would know? The law swept it under a rug for months.

I would say you are our expert at pathetic and certainly devoid of facts. Maybe actually asking a minority what they experience would help you but don't give them that same crap about being grateful for personal freedom stuff.

[Athos]

On the subject of replies, maybe you can finally get around to replying to this.

"Do you mean like I have done several times already and you have yet to do? But I'll tell you what. I will be happy to restate my view based upon your guarantee that it will be followed by you doing likewise. Agreed?"

I'm ahead of you.

Here's my belief in my own words:

I do NOT believe Jesus condemns people (including unbelievers and sinners) to eternal punishment in hell where they are tortured for all eternity.

You may now post your belief in your own words.

You're not being asked to PROVE your belief. You're being asked to STATE it. We already know the source of your belief is the Bible.

[paraclete]

I'm ahead of you.

Here's my belief in my own words:

I do NOT believe Jesus condemns people (including unbelievers and sinners) to eternal punishment in hell where they are tortured for all eternity.

You may now post your belief in your own words.

You're not being asked to PROVE your belief. You're being asked to STATE it. We already know the source of your belief is the Bible.

I have to refute your arguments

where do you think the outer darkness is and who is sent there? Don't you think exclusion for eternity is punishment? A form of hell? maybe Dante was correct there are various levels of hell and punishment, the worst being reserved for satan and his henchmen, but those who reject Jesus will be excluded, will be punished whether you believe that is the lake of Fire described in revelation or not, all will be judged and Jesus is the judge

[jlisenbe]

Well, you did a fine job of stating what you don't believe. You're similar to the little boy who was asked by his teacher what 8 x 20 is. "Well," he replied, "I know it's not 0, teacher." I guess we'll have to accept knowing what you DON'T believe, but we still don't know what you DO believe.

For me, I'll start by saying it makes no difference what you or I believe. I have no interest in listening to any of that. What matters is what is true. Since Jesus said he IS the truth, then I listen to him. In Matthew 25, Jesus clearly describes a day of coming judgement. This is the same message Paul preached (Acts 24:15 & 25). It is repeated in a number of places such as in Hebrews 9:27. It will be a terrible day. The holiness of God will be on display. Isaiah 6 makes it clear that, in the light of His holiness, we are all in desperate trouble. Rev. 20 tells us that when that day comes, it will be such an awesome sight that the earth and the heavens will flee away.

What will he judge? Jesus makes it clear that sin will be judged. In John 8, Jesus warns that people will die in their sins and be judged. In Romans 3 Paul makes it clear that we have all sinned. If we are honest, we have sinned a lot and we have a lot to answer for. And Jesus was equally clear that the only solution to our impending judgment was to "believe that I (Jesus) am He."

John 3:16 gives a very clear description. Man is perishing. That is his present condition. But because of the great love God has for man, a love that is not dependent on our goodness but rather on His goodness, He sent His Son to be our Savior. If we place our trust in Him, we shall "not perish".

Jesus describes hell as being a terrible place of torment and an eternal place in Matthew 25.


Now it's your turn. Tell us what you believe, and not what you do NOT believe. What is man's ultimate future?

Yeah there is no housing, or job discrimination in America, and institutional racism is a made up fiction as well as the accounts of Jim Crow and James Crow ESQ. are. People fought and died to get that crap straight and the Klan no longer bothers with hoods.

The next boss I have I will give him my schedule I want to work. Your facts of the case is what's pathetic, and crackers assassinating a jogger is pathetic, and if not for a video who would know? The law swept it under a rug for months.

I would say you are our expert at pathetic and certainly devoid of facts. Maybe actually asking a minority what they experience would help you but don't give them that same crap about being grateful for personal freedom stuff.

Have you always been in the habit of making things up? I said none of the material in your first paragraph. Total foolishness.

I never suggested you could determine your work schedule. Total nonsense.

As to asking a minority (like you?) what he has experienced, I'll be happy to listen, but I will not listen to you lying about what I have said.

If there are so many abortions, as you claim, I'm betting they are done during the first four months (women usually don't even realize they're pregnant during the first couple of months) of a pregnancy that was caused by a selfish, demanding husband/boyfriend (especially one who has no interest in birth control), a rapist, a family member (incest), birth control failure, etc. Very few women will put up with what happens during those nine months and then say, "Shucks! I guess I don't want this kid after all."

"As you claim?" Wow. What a crazy statement.

The rest is largely drama queen material. Look. I understand that women end up in tough situations and men can be scumbags. I do not agree that killing an unborn child is the solution. That is where we disagree. You have no problem with killing unborn children, and I do.

And you're "betting" on when abortions take place? You have no idea, do you?

Are you really OK with killing this child? This is at 14 weeks, right in that 3 to 4 month window you described.

[Athos]

I have to refute your arguments

I made no argument. I simply stated my belief.

[jlisenbe]

No, you stated your non-belief. I'm waiting to hear what you DO believe.

[Athos]

Well, you did a fine job of stating what you don't believe

Of course, I knew you would do your evasion thing. I remind you what the original question was - DOES JESUS CONDEMN UNBELIEVERS TO HELL FOR ETERNAL PUNISHMENT? You asked me what my belief was re this. I said (again) that I DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS SENDS PEOPLE TO HELL FOR ETERNAL PUNISHMENT.

For me, I'll start by saying it makes no difference what you or I believe.

Wow, you sure fooled everybody here for the last many months.

What matters is what is true.

That's NOT what you asked me to post. In fact, you said you would RESTATE YOUR VIEW. You have not done that. You have offered Bible verses which you were specifically asked not to do since that is NOT A RESTATEMENT OF YOUR VIEW.

Since Jesus said he IS the truth, then I listen to him. In Matthew 25 ........................etc., etc., etc.

There you go again. You are simply NOT ABLE to state your view (as you said you would) without citing all the Bible verses you can find. I won't repeat my critique of your Bible verses except to repeat they are bad translations of Greek and Hebrew words such as "gehenna", tartarus, and "sheol", etc. That is easily verified if you try. But it shakes your long-held belief. I understand that.

Jesus describes hell as being a terrible place of torment and an eternal place in Matthew 25.

Jerome mistakenly translated Gehenna ( a burning garbage pit) as Hell. The Greek does not support "eternal". But we've been over this before. They are facts that you refuse to believe which is your right.

Now it's your turn.

My turn? I already took my turn - see above!

Tell us what you believe. What is man's ultimate future?

Your jump to "man's ultimate future" is quite a leap. I take this drastic change to mean you can't (or are unwilling to) state your view in the matter under discussion.

If you want to change the topic then start a new thread. It's obvious you're trying to get out of this discussion.

[talaniman]

Have you always been in the habit of making things up? I said none of the material in your first paragraph. Total foolishness.
I never suggested you could determine your work schedule. Total nonsense.
As to asking a minority (like you?) what he has experienced, I'll be happy to listen, but I will not listen to you lying about what I have said.

I dismissed what you said, as loony BS, divorced from reality, and that's no lie. As is often the case with you, I ignore what you say and go with what I know. You are as incompetent about facts as the dufus is and that's no lie either.

That's what happens when you have your head stuck up the dufus' arse shoulder deep for 3 years, you open your mouth and spew BS! It's no wonder you have life and BS all mixed up.

[paraclete]

No, you stated your non-belief. I'm waiting to hear what you DO believe.

why don't you apply Occam's razor? In the absence of any other evidence, he doesn't believe what you do

[jlisenbe]

My goodness. You can become such an angry little man when someone has the temerity to refuse to agree with you.

There you go again. You are simply NOT ABLE to state your view (as you said you would) without citing all the Bible verses you can find

And there is our difference. I agree with the Bible and you don't. It's just that simple. That's why you are unable to formulate what you believe or to back it up with scripture. I cite the Bible because the Bible governs my view. You cannot cite scripture because you only know what you don't believe and not what you do believe. I am completely happy to agree with the Bible. It is one of the great goals of my life.

BTW, that was far from being all the Bible verses I could find. I've posted them and you took no notice. Was I surprised? No.

As to the meaning of aionios, you continue to revert to Jerome, and I continue to revert to hundreds of Bible scholars far more knowledgeable than you, none of whom agree with you. You are stuck on an island.

Sadly, I guess we'll never know what you DO believe. It's kind of funny because I knew you wouldn't do it.

That's what happens when you have your head stuck up the dufus' arse shoulder deep for 3 years, you open your mouth and spew BS! It's no wonder you have life and BS all mixed up.

Do you always get this mad when it becomes apparent that you have nothing useful to say? I called you out and you explode. Kind of obvious.

[talaniman]

LOL, don't know why you think I would be mad about how far up the dufus arse your head is, especially since you never deny the charge. It's rather obvious that you cannot do so truthfully. I will give you credit for consistency in that you never deviate from your narrow views of anything from religion to politics while attempting to elevate your position higher by blasting others. I've known enough wingers, many I'm related to, to understand them. It's really no big deal, nothing for me to be mad about, since I accept I cannot control your lunacy, but I can expose it for what it is. Your easy in that you don't try to hide it, so I appreciate that honesty. I know despite your lunacy that if I asked for the shirt off your back you would gladly give it.

So you ain't all bad just a crazy talking MO'FO most of the time. Now if I could just get your head out the dufus arse…we could see what you really look like.

[jlisenbe]

Haven't denied the charge? It's a completely stupid and ignorant statement and is just the kind of comment that usually comes from a completely stupid and ignorant individual who runs out of anything useful to say and so resorts to gutter language. To see it come from you is disappointing and surprising. The only thing you're exposing is your own frustration at being unable to come up with anything productive to say. You could have read my comments and said something useful, but that would have required some work, so you resorted to ugliness. The one useful thing about your comment is that it makes me determined not to lower myself to that pathetic level.

That's something I've noticed about you three amigos. When you get cornered you get mad, and rather than think your way out of the corner you just get insulting. I find that to be true of nearly every liberal I speak with. It's one of the major reasons I'm not a liberal. It does, at least, provide some cheap entertainment during this "shelter in place" period. It's good for laughs.