[talaniman]

1. You can just as easily look without ones self and form whatever ideas you want and many people with reference books can have their own ideas separate and apart from others readings of the same book/bible. I can respect that and have no control over others, just MYSELF. I guess that's between the individual and his God. My own relationship with a God that I understand gives me much peace and understanding as well as guidance through this reality. What more should I want?

2. True of course the struggles to gain freedom, equality, and that struggle continues after all of those changes in law, many years and decades after the civil war, as it was with abortion becoming legal. That's just a fact of reality, right or wrong. You make your own call and follow your own actions as you struggle to change the laws you disagree with. That doesn't mean I take abortion as fine, just take a different tact than yours.

3. You may believe in what you wrote, but I do not and you can blast me for it, but that's okay, nothing new there, but changing your mind about it is pretty useless as a point of discussion at this time.

4. Are procedures done within the first month or too in a private doctors office considered an abortion?

5. LOL, Clinics for women's heath are basically non-partisan because who cares about party or church affiliations. Not saying churches and conservatives don't give as good a care just because of those affiliations, nor would they turn away anyone because of race religion or party affiliation.

Your not saying that only Christian churches and conservatives run clinics for women are you? Just seems that way in your area right?

[jlisenbe]

3. You may believe in what you wrote, but I do not and you can blast me for it, but that's okay, nothing new there, but changing your mind about it is pretty useless as a point of discussion at this time.

I haven't blasted you. You stated that what I wrote was not accurate. So for the third time, what was inaccurate?

4. Are procedures done within the first month or too in a private doctors office considered an abortion?

Yes. I was at the clinic today and thought about you. You should have seen the cars coming and going. They were not the cars of the poor.

5. Not saying churches and conservatives don't give as good a care just because of those affiliations, nor would they turn away anyone because of race religion or party affiliation.

That is actually exactly what you said. I'm glad to see you don't really believe it.

Your not saying that only Christian churches and conservatives run clinics for women are you? Just seems that way in your area right?

I was replying to your contention that conservatives don't care about women after the baby is born. That is just flatly untrue. In fact, I would argue that outside of bragging about what the feds do with other people's money, liberals do very little to help single moms. That might be an overstatement, but conservative Christian churches are generally very ready to help single mothers.

[talaniman]

How do you support a political party that proudly flies the flag of unrestricted abortion up to nine months of pregnancy? Nearly a million deaths a year of the unborn, but you want to complain about keeping meat facilities open? How is that consistent?


A misrepresentation of facts and exaggeration to boot, and your usual lumping different subjects together makes you very consistent for sure, but abortions are lawful with restrictions, and the meat supply and the virus are happening NOW! I will never be holier than thou, nor do I try too be.

That's what you wrote and my response.

As a party the dems don't support abortion up to nine months though some individuals do, but most late term proponents recognize and support the mothers life be saved if life threatening complications happen. A nuanced caveat, but an important one. Hope that explains my position and response better.

[jlisenbe]

As a party the dems don't support abortion up to nine months though some individuals do, but most late term proponents recognize and support the mothers life be saved if life threatening complications happen. A nuanced caveat, but an important one. Hope that explains my position and response better.

Can you name a single major democrat who has called for making late term abortions illegal, or who has introduced legislation to prevent those?

[talaniman]

They are already illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aborti...tates_by_state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partia...ortion_Ban_Act

[jlisenbe]

This can be found in the link you provided that supposedly shows late term abortions to be illegal. "Since 1995, led by Congressional Republicans, the US House of Representatives and US Senate have moved several times to pass measures banning the procedure of intact dilation and extraction, also commonly known as partial birth abortion. After several long and emotional debates on the issue, such measures passed twice by wide margins, but President Bill Clinton vetoed those bills in April 1996 and October 1997 on the grounds that they did not include health exceptions."

So in what possible way do you think they are illegal???

[Wondergirl]

President Bill Clinton vetoed those bills in April 1996 and October 1997 on the grounds that they did not include health exceptions."

So in what possible way do you think they are illegal???

Clinton vetoed them?

[talaniman]

This can be found in the link you provided that supposedly shows late term abortions to be illegal. "Since 1995, led by Congressional Republicans, the US House of Representatives and US Senate have moved several times to pass measures banning the procedure of intact dilation and extraction, also commonly known as partial birth abortion. After several long and emotional debates on the issue, such measures passed twice by wide margins, but President Bill Clinton vetoed those bills in April 1996 and October 1997 on the grounds that they did not include health exceptions."

So in what possible way do you think they are illegal???

Did you even read the second link?

[jlisenbe]

Did you read the final paragraph of the second link?

"In response to this statute, many abortion providers have adopted the practice of inducing fetal demise before beginning late-term abortions. Typically, a solution of potassium chloride or digoxin is injected directly into the fetal heart using ultrasound to guide the needle.[29][30] This is often done by providers who do not perform intact dilation and extraction procedures (as well as by those who do) because they feel the broad wording of the ban compels them "to do all they can to protect themselves and their staff from the possibility of being accused."

So does it really sound to you like late term abortions are not being performed??? Read the description of that procedure several times. If it doesn't make you sick, then your humanity is suspect. Of all the dem candidates, only Tulsi Gabbard came out against late term abortions, and she was kicked repeatedly by other dems for doing so.

In addition, as far as I could figure it out, the PBAB only applies to abortions performed on women crossing state lines to get it done. What occurs within a state is still subject to state law. "Inducing fetal demise" is, of course, a euphemism for killing the baby in the womb so the staff can deliver a guaranteed dead child. I'm happy to report that those options are illegal in Mississippi.

Eight states presently allow abortion through nine months: Alaska, Colorado, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, and Vermont, along with Washington, D.C. And guess who controls Washington, D.C.? If you said the feds, then you got it right.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/7...-new-york.html

Clinton vetoed them?

Twice.

[jlisenbe]

Former Pres Obama goes golfing a day after Michelle (and others) put out PSA's reminding people (black people specifically) how important it was to shelter in place. He and his entourage were the only ones on the course. It must be nice being part of the chosen few with no sense of the importance of setting a good example for others. You guys don't like to admit it, but he and Trump are just two peas in a pod. https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politic...7ZePc2A4Qtutyo

[talaniman]

What do you think is the rationale for those RARE late term abortions? Do you also consider the procedure most women with resources have done by an OBYGYN in her office very early on in possible pregnancies to be a procedure to be banned also?

You did read the entire history of abortions that point out that Bush signed legislation that banned the procedure that Clinton vetoed, on the grounds on health considerations, didn't you? Even your own previous links point out that abortions in America are declining mostly because science is providing better options that are safer, as seen in the links that evolve the trimester restrictions to viability, effectively shrinking the window in which an abortion can be legally done.

It must be nice being part of the chosen few with no sense of the importance of setting a good example for others. You guys don't like to admit it, but he and Trump are just two peas in a pod.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politic...7ZePc2A4Qtutyo

At least you have stopped blasting Obama for his handling of the flu epidemic on his watch, and given the dufus handling now, nobody is giving him high marks as more is revealed about it, and as his antics become more prevalent. I like Obama you like the dufus, sounds like partisan opinions clashing as usual.

[jlisenbe]

Do you also consider the procedure most women with resources have done by an OBYGYN in her office very early on in possible pregnancies to be a procedure to be banned also?

Why wouldn't they be banned? Is a baby any less human because of its age? I've included a pic of a baby at eight weeks. Look nonhuman to you?

You did read the entire history of abortions that point out that Bush signed legislation that banned the procedure that Clinton vetoed, on the grounds on health considerations, didn't you? Even your own previous links point out that abortions in America are declining mostly because science is providing better options that are safer, as seen in the links that evolve the trimester restrictions to viability, effectively shrinking the window in which an abortion can be legally done.

The "shrinking" of the window has been accomplished by restrictive state laws advocated by people like me and opposed by the party you support. The viability argument is balogna. A baby is perfectly viable in his/her mother's womb. It is only when a "doctor" kills the baby that viability is threatened.

At least you have stopped blasting Obama for his handling of the flu epidemic on his watch,

You have me confused with someone else. I haven't blasted Obama for that. I would think he probably did fairly well, just like I think Trump is doing fairly well.

I'm still waiting for you to take up the banner of justice for Biden's accuser in the same way you did for Kavanaugh's accuser. You do apply your standards uniformly, don't you?

[Athos]

Interesting that for 2,500 years (as far back as possible to know) abortion was not considered murder or illegal. Around the late 19th century, it started to be thought of as murder and early in the 20th century, it became illegal in the industrialized countries.

[talaniman]

Are you ignoring my questions or have no answers?

What do you think is the rationale for those RARE late term abortions? Do you also consider the procedure most women with resources have done by an OBYGYN in her office very early on in possible pregnancies to be a procedure to be banned also?

[jlisenbe]

Interesting that for 2,500 years (as far back as possible to know) abortion was not considered murder or illegal. Around the late 19th century, it started to be thought of as murder and early in the 20th century, it became illegal in the industrialized countries.

The same could basically be said of slavery or the rule of kings. The same could be said of the theory of evolution or of the nature of matter.

I'd still like to know why you accept some of the words of Christ but not all of them. What is the standard you are applying?

What do you think is the rationale for those RARE late term abortions?

I don't think there is an acceptable rationale for killing a 9 month fetus. Can you think of one?

Do you also consider the procedure most women with resources have done by an OBYGYN in her office very early on in possible pregnancies to be a procedure to be banned also?

I've already answered that, so I'll just copy and paste my answer which you missed. "Why wouldn't they be banned? Is a baby any less human because of its age? I've included a pic of a baby at eight weeks. Look nonhuman to you?" I even included a picture of an eight week fetus and asked if it looked nonhuman to you. Does it?

[Wondergirl]

I don't think there is an acceptable rationale for killing a 9 month fetus. Can you think of one?

The mother's life becomes an issue.

[jlisenbe]

At nine months that is extremely rare, but I would certainly agree it would be valid.

[talaniman]

I don't think there is an acceptable rationale for killing a 9 month fetus. Can you think of one?

I've already answered that, so I'll just copy and paste my answer which you missed. "Why wouldn't they be banned? Is a baby any less human because of its age? I've included a pic of a baby at eight weeks. Look nonhuman to you?" I even included a picture of an eight week fetus and asked if it looked nonhuman to you. Does it?

1. Serious life threatening health complications to mother or child, or both.

2. Just want to clarify your life begins at conception position, for future reference as I return to the topic.

[jlisenbe]

1. Serious life threatening health complications to mother or child, or both.

Well, that is extremely rare, but I would agree with that for the mom, but on what planet would you justify an abortion for fear of a health complication for the child??? I would think an inhumane death is about as big a health complication as you can fine.

2. Just want to clarify your life begins at conception position, for future reference as I return to the topic.

That's fine. Why don't you clarify (and justify!!) your position on when life begins.

[talaniman]

1. Modern science can identify many catastrophic health conditions of life in the womb.

2. When it can live independently on its own. Evolved from when it's born/at birth.

The real question is when can a woman decide to terminate a pregnancy, in which 4 to 6 weeks seems reasonable to me.