[tomder55]

Not familiar with your situation, but that I don't think that is the case in most states for private schools. It's not in ours.

They use Common CORE testing in public and private schools as well as an alphabet soup of others .NY also uses Regents testing .

Privatizing schools would solve many of those problems. For instance, suppose you are an outstanding fifth year teacher. You work hard, your students do well on tests, and you're dependable. The teacher beside you does none of those things, but he/she gets paid the same money you get paid so long as their years of experience and level of education are the same.

absolutely . NY also loves to dump teachers right before tenure kicks in.

Poorer communities less money for stuff.

NY provides state aid to poorer district which means that my property taxes that go towards education does not only get spent in my district . Nah there is plenty of money . And don't use the poor pay of teachers as an example . The real waste is in administrative costs .
https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...-waste/384949/

[jlisenbe]

NY provides state aid to poorer district which means that my property taxes that go towards education does not only get spent in my district . Nah there is plenty of money . And don't use the poor pay of teachers as an example . The real waste is in administrative costs .
https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...-waste/384949/

Maybe I missed it, but there was nothing in the article about admin costs. You guys are just barking up the wrong tree concerning the problems on education. It has nothing to do with money.

[paraclete]

Maybe I missed it, but there was nothing in the article about admin costs. You guys are just barking up the wrong tree concerning the problems on education. It has nothing to do with money.

undoubtedly it has to do with competence

[jlisenbe]

Three primary problems. 1. Culture. 2. Culture 3. Culture

[paraclete]

which culture is that?

[talaniman]

It's probably a great mix of corruptions and inefficiencies Tom, at the local level.

[jlisenbe]

which culture is that?

Amerian

[Wondergirl]

Amerian

I won't say anything.

[paraclete]

Amerian? I know it is probably a typo but I have to ask. Amerian?

[jlisenbe]

Whoops. American.

[talaniman]

At least you didn't get into the usual religious diatribe and left open a dialogue that may include as simple something as simple the locals auditing there practices of school funding. Nurses, social workers and counselors are missing from schools, or are overwhelmed by just the sheer number students who need those services. We know that many fall through the cracks and one is to many in my book, as well as their parents and FAMILY issues. I disagree with my friend Tom on there is plenty of money, as local school districts as a whole have taken a hit, while rising costs have there effects also. Inefficient spending sure always a problem, but we have seen a few strikes across the land about teacher pay, teachers buying supplies for students they teach, and teachers working side jobs to pay the rent, not to mention those school shootings.

Yes it's a complex set of problems alright and no one solution fits all situations. I suspect the whole education problem is but a part of a bigger picture that is a reflection on how we deal with our problems across the board. Charities do well but not nearly enough, even with the volunteers so maybe local governments and school districts need to get their priorities straight.

[jlisenbe]

Yes it's a complex set of problems alright

I don't think it is. It is a relatively simple set of cultural problems. There are way too many kids from single parent families with no male influence in their lives. We have a culture that values athletics and entertainment above education. There are too many students (and parents) who do not respect authority and there's an accompanying lack of will to deal with them by school leadership, so maintaining an orderly classroom has become, in many areas, a daunting challenge. Add to all of that an adherence to the silly idea that diversity is a worthwhile goal. With all of these cultural issues facing us, the result is that many schools have lost their focus on academic excellence and have become disorderly. Considering all of the above, the best and brightest do not consider education as a possible profession.

Money is the least of our problems.

[jlisenbe]

I won't say anything.

You haven't said anything in quite a while. Welcome back.

[talaniman]

I don't think it is. It is a relatively simple set of cultural problems. There are way too many kids from single parent families with no male influence in their lives. We have a culture that values athletics and entertainment above education. There are too many students (and parents) who do not respect authority and there's an accompanying lack of will to deal with them by school leadership, so maintaining an orderly classroom has become, in many areas, a daunting challenge. Add to all of that an adherence to the silly idea that diversity is a worthwhile goal. With all of these cultural issues facing us, the result is that many schools have lost their focus on academic excellence and have become disorderly. Considering all of the above, the best and brightest do not consider education as a possible profession.

Money is the least of our problems.

The best and brightest find ways to meet whatever the challenge is but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case with the ones in charge of giving us a better education system. If a teacher has an unruly class there use to be a system to handle that situation and not just play helpless. You say lack of will, how about lack of enough qualified people to assist in such circumstances. You say it's not money, then why the teacher strikes for resources and money? Naw, you just can't pass it off as a lack of going to church, you actually have to deal with the real life issues that students and parents present beyond the bad attitude which may be a cry for HELP!

As populations grow, capacity becomes a bigger issue than it was before especially given the wage stagnation and rising cost of living. More teachers counsellors nurses cafeteria cooks and janitors cost money so you better find some, or no one will be looking to volunteer to watch over and educate your kids to be broke and poor themselves. Isn't that how charter and private schools take care of that problem? Sure it is, so lets not dance around that aspect of our society in general no matter what the issues are because money is at the heart of all those issues especially in poorer communities.

Maybe holding leadership and administration accountable for solving those problems and firing them if they can't do the job is the place to start.

[jlisenbe]

If a teacher has an unruly class there use to be a system to handle that situation and not just play helpless.

Key words are "used to be". In the schools I worked in, we did not have problems with discipline because we still paddled kids and dealt with parents who wanted their children to behave, but that is not the case in most of the country. In the city system I used to work in, the Obama DOJ along with the loonies of the SCLC imposed a legal agreement on the District with the result that students became free to cuss teachers and the discipline went to you know where. Don't believe me? Come check it out for yourself.

You say lack of will, how about lack of enough qualified people to assist in such circumstances.

Nonsense. We don't need more people.

You say it's not money, then why the teacher strikes for resources and money?

It rarely happens, but when it does it's because they want more pay. Who doesn't???

Naw, you just can't pass it off as a lack of going to church,

You're making things up again. I didn't say that, but it would be a great thing to happen.

you actually have to deal with the real life issues that students and parents present beyond the bad attitude which may be a cry for HELP!

Typical liberal nonsense. I've tried to get you to agree that women need to stop having children out of wedlock, but you seem to be too ingrained with liberal orthodoxy to agree to the most common sense proposal imaginable. And yes, men need to stop fathering children out of wedlock.

[talaniman]

Key words are "used to be". In the schools I worked in, we did not have problems with discipline because we still paddled kids and dealt with parents who wanted their children to behave, but that is not the case in most of the country. In the city system I used to work in, the Obama DOJ along with the loonies of the SCLC imposed a legal agreement on the District with the result that students became free to cuss teachers and the discipline went to you know where. Don't believe me? Come check it out for yourself.

I'd love to know more details and facts of the case, or directions where I was going.

Nonsense. We don't need more people.

Some schools have a part time nurse and even fewer counselling, and if a class size is 45/50 kids yeah I would say you need more people, for certain important jobs. Just support for teachers with those over sized classes would be a help.

It rarely happens, but when it does it's because they want more pay. Who doesn't???

Happens everywhere I know of when the existing contract expires.

You're making things up again. I didn't say that, but it would be a great thing to happen.

I had to throw that in there because I KNEW that's what you think.

Typical liberal nonsense. I've tried to get you to agree that women need to stop having children out of wedlock, but you seem to be too ingrained with liberal orthodoxy to agree to the most common sense proposal imaginable. And yes, men need to stop fathering children out of wedlock.

Hey guy all due respect but the conditions and population of your small rural town is probably made up of guys like you and that's okay with me but as I always tell Clete about Australia, SIZE, and demographics MATTER. I can only relate to my experience from rather large to huge cities that are VERY diverse. Understandable if it doesn't apply to your own experience where you are.

Different worlds we seem to live in.

[jlisenbe]

class size is 45/50 kids

Happens virtually nowhere. Even in our state, working with restricted budgets, we are limited to no more than 27 students, and in lower grades you must have an assistant.

Hey guy all due respect but the conditions and population of your small rural town is probably made up of guys like you and that's okay with me but as I always tell Clete about Australia, SIZE, and demographics MATTER.

I spent five years working in a high school that was completely American Indian. I spent ten years working in schools which were 90% or more black. I spent fifteen years working in schools that were 80% or more white. The one constant was that we had good discipline. Why? Because it was insisted on. We did not give students the option of acting foolish and still remaining in the school. In far too many areas, that is not the case. It is no longer the case in the city district I worked in thanks to the foolishness of the Obama DOJ.

[talaniman]

Exactly what did the DOJ do to you guys and wwhy were they called in? Have you worked outside MS? Just because your district doesn't have that overcrowding problem I assure you many do across the country. You can Google that. OR...

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/educ...harter-schools

[jlisenbe]

According to your article that you linked, overcrowding is not generally a problem in Texas. The few schools that did seem to have some problems were charter schools that are probably not as subject to state regulations.

As far as what the DOJ did, there was supposedly a "school to prison" pipeline in our city. Now bear in mind that the Superintendent was black, most of the principals were black, and many of the teachers were black, and yet they reached the astonishing conclusion that all of those black people were prejudiced against...black people! So they forced the city to adopt discipline guidelines that made it nearly impossible to discipline a student for anything short of carrying a weapon or selling drugs. It produced school environments that were out of order. Teachers began to retire early and it was difficult to find replacements. It's what happens when the loonies in the federal government get involved in education. I could tell you story after story. Test scores for that district are basically in the basement. The district received a grade of F in the most recent testing cycle.

[talaniman]

Do you mean the consent decrees a school district entered into? Wonder who squealed?