[jlisenbe]

I go with making it a priority to vet the ones buying guns a more practical approach. That includes a medical and psyche evaluation which is what military and cops are subject to, so in line for the general public as well when it comes to buying a gun. Won't solve the problems tomorrow, but I think a good first step.

Thousands more people are killed in car wrecks every year than gun homicides. Should we do a psych test for a drivers license? Just another big government solution and a wide open avenue to the government taking away guns.

Say what you will about the city in Georgia, but 25 years with no gun homicide as compared to Chicago which can't make it 25 hours without a gun homicide.

I won't buy into that corrupt murderous government as that's plain fear mongering,

That's because you don't live in Zimbabwe, Venezuela, South Africa, Russia, Cuba, Iran, or any one of many other countries where they live in daily fear of the government and have their liberties severely curtailed. Your answer is really amazing. You act as though oppressive governments don't exist. Just an astonishing position.

So, at its root, it's really about government which you guys truly hate even a benign one like the USA.

A complete nonsense answer. The point is to AVOID large, oppressive, and corrupt governments. Wake up and smell the coffee. You might want to think a bit about why our government is "benign".

[talaniman]

[QUOTE=jlisenbe;3836696]Thousands more people are killed in car wrecks every year than gun homicides. Should we do a psych test for a drivers license? Just another big government solution and a wide open avenue to the government taking away guns.;/QUOTE]

I think state and federal governments could work that out better after much more debate than just the two of us, and like I said it's an idea and a place to start as opposed to conflating one problem with another one, which may well require a different approach.

Say what you will about the city in Georgia, but 25 years with no gun homicide as compared to Chicago which can't make it 25 hours without a gun homicide.

It's a nice college town and I am very familiar with that area but comparing it to the millions in Chicago is two entirely different issues and if you weren't so paranoid about "BIG" government taking your guns away then maybe you could see that. I mean geez JL, you could fit the whole town of which you speak into Soldier Field and still have a half empty empty stadium. An that's a small NFL stadium. It just don't compare is my point.

That's because you don't live in Zimbabwe, Venezuela, South Africa, Russia, Cuba, Iran, or any one of many other countries where they live in daily fear of the government and have their liberties severely curtailed. Your answer is really amazing. You act as though oppressive governments don't exist. Just an astonishing position.

You don't live there either so know nothing about their problems or how to solve them. You have demonstrated a fear of your own government and you have any gun you want, so that cannot be the whole answer either. I recognize the primitive exploitive nature of those repressive dictatorships, and the way they control the population with capitalists money to ELITES to keep it that way. Iran in particular 9And add China and Russia too!} was exploited at one time by Euro businesses and then America, and that led directly to the 12ers revolt and power grab, made even worse with the dismantling of Iraq another repressive government that was our partner after the Shah fell, and we did business with Saddam who emerged after the overthrow of his government. You get the general idea here but it was us chasing the dollars that destabilized much of the Mideast and South America and even Africa by westerners chasing that dollar.

A complete nonsense answer. The point is to AVOID large, oppressive, and corrupt governments. Wake up and smell the coffee. You might want to think a bit about why our government is "benign".

It's never been as benign as you think and has promoted the big bucks crowd for a long time going back to it's founding. It was a slow slog but the elites that control the money that have been running OUR government, just less obvious than those murderous repressive governments we all rail against. You went from being cool and thoughtful to partisan and dismissive rather fast, even for you in the face of disagreement.

Your loony right wing roots come through loud and clear. Too much dufus red meat in your diet.

[jlisenbe]

I think state and federal governments could work that out better after much more debate than just the two of us, and like I said it's an idea and a place to start as opposed to conflating one problem with another one, which may well require a different approach.

Reasonable reply. Worth building on.

It's a nice college town and I am very familiar with that area but comparing it to the millions in Chicago is two entirely different issues and if you weren't so paranoid about "BIG" government taking your guns away then maybe you could see that. I mean geez JL, you could fit the whole town of which you speak into Soldier Field and still have a half empty empty stadium. An that's a small NFL stadium. It just don't compare is my point.

Murder rate in Chicago is about 1 per 6,000 people, year after year after year. The murder rate in Kennesaw is 0 per 33,000, year after year after year for the past 25 years.

It's never been as benign as you think and has promoted the big bucks crowd for a long time going back to it's founding. It was a slow slog but the elites that control the money that have been running OUR government, just less obvious than those murderous repressive governments we all rail against.

Come on, Tal, Surely you are not trying to compare living in the U.S. with living in Zimbabwe, Russia, Iran, or any one of dozens of other repressive regimes where liberties are constantly threatened. If you think it's comparable, I encourage you to go live in one of those countries for a year. You'll be so glad to get back to the U.S. you'll pee your pants when you get off the plane.

BTW, I didn't say our government was benign. That was a quote from Athos.

[talaniman]

Murder rate in Chicago is about 1 per 6,000 people, year after year after year. The murder rate in Kennesaw is 0 per 33,000, year after year after year for the past 25 years.

You could easily say the same for the burbs of Chicago where Kennesaw is but a burb of Atlanta. It's a huge difference between the big city and the small burb towns they approximate. Keep an open mind on that please, and explore how many gun shops there are in that small town of 33,000 and growing rapidly. Hey I don't knock what they've done, not at all but they crime rates are very different for different reasons JL, and you often cannot take what rural America can do and import it to the millions in a large city. Especially a well to do one. The whole flavor of poverty is immensely different, and much more desperate.

Wait don't tell me, you live in a small town where everybody knows everybody, and the streets are empty at 10 pm. It's not a small difference.

Come on, Tal, Surely you are not trying to compare living in the U.S. with living in Zimbabwe, Russia, Iran, or any one of dozens of other repressive regimes where liberties are constantly threatened. If you think it's comparable, I encourage you to go live in one of those countries for a year. You'll be so glad to get back to the U.S. you'll pee your pants when you get off the plane.

I don't compare the US to anyplace and have no plans to even visit, Canada maybe soon, but there is NO comparison and I implied none. With all our problems and challenges, I am grateful for where I was born. That doesn't mean it's paradise on Earth, and couldn't use some improvements here and there, but still NO comparisons as that would be patently unfair.

LOL, there are many places here though that are dangerous enough to stay out of.

[jlisenbe]

You could easily say the same for the burbs of Chicago where Kennesaw is but a burb of Atlanta.

I'll bet you can't. Maybe so, but zero homicides in 25 years is pretty impressive.

explore how many gun shops there are in that small town of 33,000 and growing rapidly.

They have a law that everyone who is a head of a household is to own a gun. So yeah, I imagine they have a lot of gunshops.

Wait don't tell me, you live in a small town where everybody knows everybody, and the streets are empty at 10 pm. It's not a small difference.

Actually live just outside of a town of about 36,000. Scarcely a month goes by without a murder being committed. Most people have guns in the their homes and yes, as you said, the crime is concentrated in a certain area of town.

[paraclete]

Actually live just outside of a town of about 36,000. Scarcely a month goes by without a murder being committed. Most people have guns in the their homes and yes, as you said, the crime is concentrated in a certain area of town.

I live in a small regional city of about 40,000. We rarely have a murder here, maybe a suicide now and then. So I have to wonder what is wrong with the people in that town, that their lives are so hopeless that they have to resort to violence to solve their problems. Even when we have a vast influx of tourists once or twice a year the level of violence doesn't increase much, perhaps an uptick in road deaths. We have an ethos that, generally speaking, violence isn't acceptable

[Wondergirl]

JL: Actually live just outside of a town of about 36,000. Scarcely a month goes by without a murder being committed.

I live in a middle-class Chicago suburb, population around 44,000. During the past ten years, there have been fewer than five murders.

[jlisenbe]

So I have to wonder what is wrong with the people in that town, that their lives are so hopeless that they have to resort to violence to solve their problems.

Quite a number of low income housing units filled with single parent families and an absence of fathers. Kind of a predictable outcome. It's the something the Gospel could fix if believed on.

[talaniman]

Poverty over time leads to crime and violence. This is nothing new. You're right JL, quite a predictable outcome. Takes a lot more than the gospel to fill an empty belly. That's an old story too.

[jlisenbe]

Poverty over time leads to crime and violence. This is nothing new. You're right JL, quite a predictable outcome. Takes a lot more than the gospel to fill an empty belly. That's an old story too.

Poverty of mind. Poverty of spirit. Those are the real problems. The Gospel can fix those, and when those are repaired, then other areas begin to fall in line. The life changing power of Jesus is very powerful.

[paraclete]

Quite a number of low income housing units filled with single parent families and an absence of fathers. Kind of a predictable outcome. It's the something the Gospel could fix if believed on.

Undoubtedly that is a solution, what do you recommend, door to door preachers?

[jlisenbe]

Undoubtedly that is a solution, what do you recommend, door to door preachers?

Why not?

[Wondergirl]

Undoubtedly that is a solution, what do you recommend, door to door preachers?

Christian churches with practical outreach programs.

[talaniman]

Christian churches with practical outreach programs.

Absolutely!! Not just Christians.

[Wondergirl]

Absolutely!! Not just Christians.

Best would be that Christians, Jews, Muslims, agnostics, atheists, and everyone in between put their collective heads together to minister to and raise up the less fortunate not only spiritually but especially in their everyday physical and emotional needs. Being preached at goes only so far.

[Athos]

Best would be that Christians, Jews, Muslims, agnostics, atheists, and everyone in between put their collective heads together to minister to and raise up the less fortunate not only spiritually but especially in their everyday physical and emotional needs. Being preached at goes only so far.

WG gets it right again!

[jlisenbe]

Best would be that Christians, Jews, Muslims, agnostics, atheists, and everyone in between put their collective heads together to minister to and raise up the less fortunate not only spiritually but especially in their everyday physical and emotional needs. Being preached at goes only so far.

Being preached at does very little. Admitting your lost state and trusting in Christ as your all in all will accomplish a great deal. I have watched it happen many times. As a confessing Christian, that is what I thought you believed. What did Jesus do? Did he go around handing out food and clothing all the time, or did he preach that people believe and live differently? If you answered he primarily preached, then you get it right.

Not all, but most poverty starts in the heart. Poor life choices generally start in the heart. Having/fathering children outside of marriage, which is at the core of most poverty in America, is a heart disease. It's a change in heart that most people need. Now it's wonderful for the church to come alongside and help, which is why I do what I do, but without a change in heart, it's all pointless and in vain.

Might add that I cannot imagine why any atheist should feel any moral compulsion to help the poor. Where would that moral compulsion come from for them? Not speaking of a desire, but of a genuine moral necessity, or of any moral code of any sort.

[Athos]

trusting in Christ as your all in all will accomplish a great deal.

No doubt in many cases, but not all.

What did Jesus do? Did he go around handing out food

Jesus fed the 5,000, then he preached to the crowd.

Poor life choices generally start in the heart.

This is called "blaming the victim". Self-righteous Christians do that extremely well.

I cannot imagine why any atheist should feel any moral compulsion to help the poor.

You badly need to get out and meet some atheists. Most that I have met have better morality than the average Church-going Christian. Especially the born-again type Christians. They're not big on helping others - they're into their personal salvation, which is ok. It's better than nothing.

[jlisenbe]

This is called "blaming the victim". Self-righteous Christians do that extremely well.

Jesus must have been a self-righteous Christian. The teaching that poor life choices begin in the heart is His teaching, not mine.

You badly need to get out and meet some atheists. Most that I have met have better morality than the average Church-going Christian. Especially the born-again type Christians. They're not big on helping others - they're into their personal salvation, which is ok. It's better than nothing.

I did not say atheists did not do moral acts. I said they had no basis for morality. As to comparing their morality to the average Christian, I don't think you have any idea what the average Christian's morality is, but famous atheists like Hitler, Stalin, and Mao tend to work against your theory.

Jesus fed the 5,000, then he preached to the crowd.

The question is what did He primarily do. He primarily taught. He fed the multitude twice.

[Wondergirl]

I did not say atheists did not do moral acts. I said they had no basis for morality.

Yes, they do. Romans 2:14-15 (NLT) -- 14 Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. 15 They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.