[tomder55]

President Barack Obama opposed the Iraq War. Fine. But when he took office in 2009, Iraq was largely pacified. Al-Qaeda in Iraq had been defeated. ISIS did not exist. Iran was not pulling the strings in Baghdad, and no Americans were dying.

Obama could have said to the American people: “I opposed this war. I thought it was a mistake. But this is not 2003. More than 4,000 Americans have given their lives, and taxpayers have spent $757 billion to ensure a better future for this country and this region and to prevent the incubation of more terrorists to threaten us at home. A too hasty withdrawal could jeopardize what has been achieved. Accordingly, I plan to leave a residual force of 20,000 troops (fewer than we deploy to South Korea) to stabilize the situation.”
But Obama had a point to make. Instead of remaining to midwife a secure Iraq, he beat a retreat. Whatever you think of the decision to invade, at that moment in 2011, there was still a good possibility of stability. As Vali Nasr, a former State Department official explained to The Atlantic: The “fragile power-sharing arrangement … required close American management. But the Obama administration had no time or energy for that. Instead it anxiously eyed the exits, with its one thought to get out. It stopped protecting the political process just when talk of American withdrawal turned the heat back up under the long-simmering power struggle that pitted the Shias, Sunnis, and Kurds against one another.”

And so, we turned our backs on the Sunni tribes who had helped defeat al-Qaeda, as well as the moderate Shiites who sought to resist Iranian domination. The aftermath is well known: the rise of ISIS, the torment of the Yazidis and Iraqi Christians, the victory of Iran in controlling its neighbor, and the ongoing agony of Syria. At least Obama achieved one end — nearly everyone now says Iraq was a disaster. It needn’t have been

Against the advice of everyone save Vladimir Putin, Bashar Assad, and Recep Erdogan, President Trump decided to pull all 2,000 American troops from Syria. This is a gift to our enemies and a betrayal of our friends — especially the Kurds, who fought ISIS when no one else would, and the Israelis, who will now have Iran more firmly on their doorstep. This is as foolish and short-sighted as Obama’s Iraq withdrawal, but with Trumpian flourishes, such as the claim that we have “defeated” ISIS (30,000 fighters remain) and that “Russia, Iran, Syria & others are the local enemy of ISIS. We were doing there work.” [sic] No, the greatest enemy ISIS faced were the Kurds, thousands of whom died fighting ISIS, and who currently hold 2,000 ISIS prisoners. Turkey is threatening an offensive against the Kurds, which would be unthinkable with Americans in the way.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...source=twitter

Screwing the Kurds .That is part of our MO. Maybe we should just cede the region to the Iranian hegemony .Sanctions don't work apparently ,and now there will be nothing stopping Iranian dominance from the Gulf of Oman to the Mediterranean Sea and the Israeli border (and if they have their way in Yemen they will control another choke point ;the Gulf of Aden). Iran and Turkey have a common interest in suppressing a Kurdish State . So Turkey will not be a check ,and neither will the Russians . This is not a withdrawal .It is a retreat; no different than the emperor's retreat from Iraq. And for the record ;just because ISIS no longer has a physical caliphate doesn't mean they are no longer a threat. Will we drive the Kurds into our enemies sphere of influence ? Undoubtedly .

"

U.S.-allied Syrian Kurds, in the wake of America’s decision this week to withdraw its military forces from Syria, are faced with the prospects of making a pact with the Iranian and Russian-backed regime of Bashar al-Assad to repel a prospective attack by Turkish forces."...."Pentagon officials had warned Turkey against attacking the Syrian Kurds, but the withdrawal announcement has abruptly changed perceptions of what all sides can reasonably expect going forward, prompting some Kurds to accuse the United States of abandoning them.
The United considers the Syrian Kurds to be the most effective partner on the ground against the Islamic State (ISIS/ISIL).
YPG fighters managed to maintain control of large swathes of territory in northeastern Syria with the help weapons, air support, and around 2,000 special forces troops on the ground provided by the United States."

https://www.breitbart.com/.../kurds-turn-russia-assad.../

We trained and assisted Kurds and anti-Assad forces (think of Lafayette and von Stuben assistance in our revolution ). American forces on the ground directed decisive American air power (think the French fleet at Yorktown). In his zeal to keep a campaign promise ,Trump is making the Kurds sacrificial pawns. Allies of ours around the world will take note .

[paraclete]

It is the fate of american allies to be sacrificed when their usefullness is over, GHW Bush did it to the shiites in Iraq, Obama did it to the Iraqi, Now Trump will do it to the Kurds. These people have no political power and so are insignificant. Did American sign on to their revolutionary aspirations, Obama may have incited some of the Syrians but they sided with al Qaeda and ISIS, who may or may not have been American enemies in Syria, but Trump is right, exit the sorry mess left by his predecessors, put americans first. Let Putin pay for the reconstruction of Syria and Trump should also get out of Afghanistan, no purpose is being served there

The enemy of my enemy is not my friend

[tomder55]

Afghanistan is different . There are no American allies there . The Kurds have been and deserve our continued assistance. ISIS is not defeated and in fact will assist in the ethnic cleansing Turkey does to the Kurds . It is not in the US interest to have defacto Iran dominance in the region ,and the presence of a couple thousand troops as a deterrence makes a difference .

[paraclete]

You can be sure Trump has taken Saudi advice and is persuaded ISIS is no longer a threat. There are no American allies in that region who are interested in defeating ISIS otherwise they would have been overrun by now. I was amazed to hear recently there may still be 30,000 ISIS in Syria, what have these forces being doing for months, ISIS should have been wiped out. Let Assad worry about them, they are on his turf. Forget the aspirations for a Kudish state, that path only leads to all out war.

America needs to stop being a jewish lackey

[tomder55]

doesn't take long to draw out the anti-semitic arguments .

Our withdrawal will severely weaken our influence in forging any diplomatic solutions . Therefore Israel will be compelled to reach out to Russia to help check Iranian entrenchment on Israel's northern border .The recent discovery of infiltration tunnels into Israel from Lebanon by the Iranian proxies Hezbollah, the growing capabilities of Hezbollah forces(they have more than doubled in size since 2006 and are more seasoned fighters ) ,and the expansion of their rocket capability (2006 they fired 3500 rockets into Israel during the 34 day war. Today they are capable of firing 1200 more sophisticated rockets per day ) ,makes the northern front the biggest threat to Israel. But you and many others would applaud the Israelis being wiped off the map.

[Athos]

America needs to stop being a jewish lackey

WOW!!

[paraclete]

doesn't take long to draw out the anti-semitic arguments .

Our withdrawal will severely weaken our influence in forging any diplomatic solutions . Therefore Israel will be compelled to reach out to Russia to help check Iranian entrenchment on Israel's northern border .The recent discovery of infiltration tunnels into Israel from Lebanon by the Iranian proxies Hezbollah, the growing capabilities of Hezbollah forces(they have more than doubled in size since 2006 and are more seasoned fighters ) ,and the expansion of their rocket capability (2006 they fired 3500 rockets into Israel during the 34 day war. Today they are capable of firing 1200 more sophisticated rockets per day ) ,makes the northern front the biggest threat to Israel. But you and many others would applaud the Israelis being wiped off the map.

I would not applaud any attack on Israel but defence of Israel doesn't extend to fighting proxy wars. The more you push Iran, the less certain you make Israel's fate. Iraq once attacked Israel, look at the aftermath. Complete destabilisation of the ME and ultimate rise of ISIS. You must learn the lesson of history or be condemned to repeat them.

[tomder55]

I would argue that it is folly to reason by analogy. Those who argue that our going to Iraq created instability fail to get that our inaction in Syria during the emperor's reign contributed to much more regional instability ,fueled extremist violence ,undermined US influence in the region and strained relations with allies. Trump's withdrawal will be worse . Everyone who dismisses our alliances with the Kurds and Israelis applaud Putin's risk to come to the aid of his dictator ally. Our abandonment makes Russia the sole power broker. The Trump policy of ambivalence to the region will guarantee that the desires of Assad ,Putin and the 12ers in Tehran will be achieved .

The betrayal of the Kurds is extremely shameful. They did most of the heavy lifting in terms of fighting ISIS , took many casualties and lived up to their word. Their reward is the promise of a new Turkish assault on them as apparently this decision by Trump came after a phone call with Erdogan.

Other minorities will also be affected. The Christians, who were targeted, expelled and killed by ISIS whose villages were razed, were beginning the slow process of going home and rebuilding their lives. They are caught between their fear of other rising radical Islamic groups and Iranian militias.

Trump has sent a message that will destroy any trust local fighters worldwide will ever have in the US to join forces fighting to eradicate terrorism. He has,signed a death warrant for potential military partners and alliances.

On the home front this decision has already cost Trump two key policy advisors in General Mattis and Brett McGurk (envoy to the alliance fighting ISIS) .I expect a conga line of key DefenseDept ,armed forces ,and State Dept personnel to follow.

[talaniman]

The dufus is just being the dufus and making another bad move.

WW


Why are we surprised


America is closed for business any way! We may as well just GO HOME!

[tomder55]

yesh Amazing how everyone is in a panic having the government shut down when non-essential workers are on a 4 day holiday weekend

The dufus is just being the dufus and making another bad move.

His stated policies is one of the reasons I did not vote for him. But this decision mirrors the emperor's abandonment of Iraq and his weak spine response to Syrian gas attacks.

[talaniman]

[tomder55]

with all due respect .answering with political cartoons is pretty much a conversation stopper . I don't see shutdowns as politically damaging .No one remembers what the issues were a half hour after they end. The highways across the country have walls lining them to reduce sound .More is spent on them than what Trump is asking for the wall. It is absurd for Pelosi and Shumer to shut down the government over what would be the amount of a rounding error in the budget . Some sections of the border need physical barriers . Some need other security arrangements . You and I know that the idea of a border wall the full length of the border is a fantasy that will never happen. Miles of the border is on private property that would have to be obtained through imminent domain. That alone would take years and would gobble up much of the funds. Then when the enviro wackos get to work challenging every impact statement and court challenges regarding the endangered species act ,there will be more litigation. The Dems should give the funding because that would take the issue off the table in 2020 and as you know ,that was probably the key issue that gave Trump the Presidency.

[Athos]

It is absurd for Pelosi and Shumer to shut down the government ....

HUH? What? It is statements like this that make you lose all credibility in whatever else you say.

[tomder55]

not at all . What have they given in the negotiations ? nothing but an equally hardline position. Why don't they try to get their DACA deal in exchange for border protection ?

It is interesting that, of all the issues that divide the parties, the one that both are willing to go to the mat on is a border wall. Its importance is mostly symbolic. The request is $5 billion of an over $4 trillion budget. If Shumer is trying to drive a wedge between Trump and his base he will fail miserably. His hardline stance will unite a coalition that is otherwise beginning to fray due to Trump's silly isolationist and protectionist stands.

[tomder55]

2006 a Border Fence act was passed. Among the Senators who voted for it were Schumer ,Evita , Biden ,and Obama . The vote in the Senate was overwhelming in support of funding 700 miles of fence . 80-19 Why was it a good idea then but not now ?

[paraclete]

Why was it a good idea then but not now ?

Because a Repelican wants it

[talaniman]

with all due respect .answering with political cartoons is pretty much a conversation stopper .

Why? Could they be accurate and TRUE? You're lucky I couldn't find one with Limbaugh and Coulter goosing the dufus because that's why the government is shutdown after a CR was agreed on and passed by the senate until Punk Paul gave the dufus his Christmas present by adding to the house bill. O know it's the last chance he had before the dems relieve repubs from duty in the house. Lets face it a guy who makes military policy arbitrarily by tweet doesn't require logical debate over anything, because when he has a deal, he changes it at the last minute. That's not governance that's just more dumb dufus stuff.

You want a conversation? Then let's talk about spending money on processing those terrorist kids and their parents humanly lawfully and fairly and screw the stupid wall, or repubs getting a spine instead of being shameless lap dogs and sycophants to a dumb lying cheating dufus. They could easily have passed a bill and over rode any presidential veto.

Since when did congress start letting the prez push them around, and move the goal post at the last minute... AGAIN. So get use to the cartoons as they make a lot more logical sense of this fecklessly created crisis's.

[tomder55]

yeah that cartoon makes sense .4$ trillion + spending but not a penny for border security . What does that tell you about the Dems ? Why do they fight their battle on the open border hill ? You deny they do .But their actions tell a different story.

[Wondergirl]

border security = more and well-trained agents to work at more official entry points. No wall is needed. Oh, and let's help stabilize Mexico and Central America.

[talaniman]

Fact is the dufus hasn't spent the last bag of loot he pilfered on border security after nixing a deal for a wall earlier this year.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ing-apart.html

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-trumps-borde/

Yeah, blame the dems when it's the dufus and his sycophants gumming up the works. Seems to me if he would shut the heck up and stop lying we wouldn't even be here. Like you said though it's a vacation for government workers and a source of political hollering points, so enjoy the cartoons.





We haven't even talked about making military decisions by tweet without the military knowing about it. Who does that?