[tomder55]

you see the bind you are in ? All your stars that arent socialists are octaginarians

[paraclete]

It begs a question Tom, why? What you are really saying is the republicans lack vision among their younger supporters or maybe you are saying support isn't among the young

[tomder55]

I've been saying the Repubics lack vision for years ….at least at the leadership level.

[talaniman]

Good picture Tom, and illustrates the real problem which is both party are slaves to the donors. For fact though both parties have their grassroots groups that need money too. I just love those emails asking for a dollar that some unnamed donor will QUADRUPLE match!

I think the NATION WIDE protest over separating families worth note though, and the court order to FIX IT!



Fitting for an Independence Day holiday celebration.

[tomder55]

more mobocracy from the open border ,rule of law be damned crowd .

[Athos]

more mobocracy from the open border ,rule of law be damned crowd .

The protestors are not demanding open borders (no sane person would), but are protesting the terrible evil of separating kids from their parents. Surely you can see that.

[paraclete]

The protestors are not demanding open borders (no sane person would), but are protesting the terrible evil of separating kids from their parents. Surely you can see that.

But that battle has been won, does no one tell them these things

[talaniman]

Have the kids been reunited? NO!

[Athos]

But that battle has been won, does no one tell them these things

Where have you been? That battle has NOT been won - the government cannot, or will not, reveal the locations of the children. Over 2,000 children remain separated from their parents and Trump's Administration is doing little or nothing about it.

The horrible possibility looms that some of these kids will never be reunited with their families. All of this tragedy is simply so that Trump can get his wall.

Donald Trump = EVIL, pure and simple. No false equivalence here!

[tomder55]

if the goal isn't open borders then what level of enforcement of border control do you find acceptable ? I've never gotten a straight answer when I ask that .

In 2008, the Democratic platform called undocumented immigrants “our neighbors.” But it also warned, that “those who enter our country’s borders illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of the law.” By 2016, such language was gone. The party’s platform described America’s immigration system as a problem, but not illegal immigration itself.

National Party Platforms on Immigration

Why would such Democrat leaders as Kristen Gillibrand be calling for the abolishing of ICE (the enforcement arm of US immigration policy ) if they did not want open borders ?

[Athos]

if the goal isn't open borders then what level of enforcement of border control do you find acceptable ? I've never gotten a straight answer when I ask that .

To begin with, stop separating families and go back to what was there before Trump changed it. A complete answer to your question is beyond the scope of this website. But we could start with differentiating between economic immigrants and refugees seeking asylum from violence.

In 2008, the Democratic platform called undocumented immigrants “our neighbors.” But it also warned, that “those who enter our country’s borders illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of the law.” By 2016, such language was gone. The party’s platform described America’s immigration system as a problem, but not illegal immigration itself.

All people are our neighbors - documented, undocumented, legal, illegal, whatever. I also believe in law and not to disrespect the law. The immigration system IS a problem, as is illegal immigration. If the party platform said illegal immigration was NOT a problem, then that platform is in error. All sides, proceeding from good will, should be able to hammer out effective laws governing immigration. My main objection is to criticize what Trump has done to the issue because he wants a wall.

National Party Platforms on Immigration

Why would such Democrat leaders as Kristen Gillibrand be calling for the abolishing of ICE (the enforcement arm of US immigration policy ) if they did not want open borders ?

Calling for the abolishment of ICE is NOT calling for the abolishment of enforcing the borders. ICE was created during a semi-hysteric panic after nine-eleven. I agree with Gillibrand that it should be revamped or replaced. The DHS IG has previously criticized it and current behavior of the agency, although anecdotal, leaves a lot to be desired.

[tomder55]

go back to what was there before Trump changed it.

catch and release ? That is not enforcement .

But we could start with differentiating between economic immigrants and refugees seeking asylum from violence.

We could start with not letting them in before that determination is made . The immigration law is not the problem . The problem is the breaking of the law and about half the country not having a problem with that .

[talaniman]

[LEFT] catch and release ? That is not enforcement .We could start with not letting them in before that determination is made . The immigration law is not the problem . The problem is the breaking of the law and about half the country not having a problem with that .

Catch and release is a LIE you guys exaggerate to scare the racist wingers into believing differen than yourselves women and children and men from the south are a serious threat to their women and children and yes their CULTURE. That's why you conflate a MISDEMEANOR infraction with a CRISIS invasion. Your right, MOST of us don't see this as the DANGEROUS problem you try to make it be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_..._(immigration)

Jump to search

In United States immigration enforcement, "catch and release" refers to a practice of releasing an immigrant to the community while he or she awaits hearings in immigration court, as an alternative to holding them in immigration detention.^[1][2] The migrants whom U.S. immigration enforcement agencies have allowed to remain in the community pending immigrant hearings have been those deemed low risk,^[3] such as children, families, and those seeking asylum.^[4]

It's called DUE PROCESS which under the constitution is to be applied to all on our soil equally and fairly, like all those Cubans. So YOU are saying WE should break the precious laws so YOU can feel better? Come on Tom, clean your glasses and see the truth!

[paraclete]

How niaive you are, the illegal immigrant has achieved their objective, they are in the community, they couldn't hope for more

[tomder55]

yes once they cross the border they have acheived breaching the gates of Vienna.

Mueller to Trump’s associates: “Lie about Trump or we’ll bankrupt you with legal fees.”

[Athos]

Mueller to Trump’s associates: “Lie about Trump or we’ll bankrupt you with legal fees.”

This is low, even for you, tomder.

[tomder55]

the truth hurts ? Why do you think Flynn did the plea ? Because Mueller was bankrupting him AND threatening charges against Flynn's son . THAT is how low it can go.
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...a-mueller-deal


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/m...l-costs-report

Why do you think Cohen made his recent decision to cooperate ?
http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...s-trump-to-pay

[talaniman]

the truth hurts ? Why do you think Flynn did the plea ? Because Mueller was bankrupting him AND threatening charges against Flynn's son . THAT is how low it can go.
Flipping Michael Flynn: The real and imagined damage of a Mueller deal | TheHill


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/m...l-costs-report

Why do you think Cohen made his recent decision to cooperate ?
Cohen tells associates legal fees 'bankrupting' him, wants Trump to pay fees: report | TheHill

What if they are just guilty? What if the lying Cheating loudmouth Dufus is guilty of something too? Who pleads to lesser charges because they are GOING broke from legal fees. Why don't they just get a cheap lawyer and plead NOT GUILTY and let the prosecutor prove they are?

[tomder55]

Why don't they just get a cheap lawyer and plead NOT GUILTY

oh you mean like the public defender in 'My Cousin Vinny '

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSw9_bsTzkU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9RwTqFIKZU

[paraclete]

Which lying dufus might that be, tal, there has been a long line of them and I expect you have folloed some of them