[tomder55]

A Canadian Pacific Railway train derailed Sunday, spilling less than 1,000 gallons of crude oil and prompting evacuations in Wisconsin, the second day in a row a freight train derailed in the state.
Thirteen cars of an eastbound CP train went off the tracks around 2 p.m. in Watertown, in the southeastern part of the state, the railroad said. One tank car was punctured and leaked oil.

2nd Train Derails in Wisconsin in 2 Days, Spills Crude Oil - ABC News

Warren Buffet owns the tanker cars and the company that manufactures the tanker cars . It is a win win for the emperors favored corporate crony.

[NeedKarma]

How was it predictable?

[tomder55]

look where the train derailed . We are supposed to believe that it spilled 1000 gallons and none of it went into the waterway .

How was it predictable?

Because there are more disasters due to train transport than pipelines .

[NeedKarma]

Don't pipelines go over/under/near waterways as well? Not sure what your point is here.

[excon]

Hello, tom:

Fact is, there's NO safe way to drill for it, transport it, or burn it. But, right wingers are gonna CLING to it as long as possible.. How much IS that LAST gallon of gas gonna be worth, anyway?

I got an idea.. Why don't we look for what's coming next? We ARE gonna find what's next, aren't we? If not, and all this is gonna be over..... Do you REALLY think that all this is gonna be over???? Really? Mad Max lives, huh?

excon

[tomder55]

Hello, tom:

Fact is, there's NO safe way to drill for it, transport it, or burn it. But, right wingers are gonna CLING to it as long as possible.. How much IS that LAST gallon of gas gonna be worth, anyway?

I got an idea.. Why don't we look for what's coming next? We ARE gonna find what's next, aren't we? If not, and all this is gonna be over..... Do you REALLY think that all this is gonna be over???? Really? Mad Max lives, huh?

excon

the emperor's idea is for us to live in the dark in your Mad Max world until he can power a 21st century economy with Beanie cap propellers on our heads .




Do all the alt energy exploration you want . When it becomes economically viable it will naturally replace the carbon energy era.

[NeedKarma]

In the same vein that planes and cars crash and yet people still fly and drive there is an allowable amount of mishaps before an alternative is found to be better. For oil transport that threshold has not been reached yet concerning train transport.

[tomder55]

Don't pipelines go over/under/near waterways as well? Not sure what your point is here.

I'll repeat myself then.... there are more disasters due to train transport than pipelines .

In the same vein that planes and cars crash and yet people still fly and drive there is an allowable amount of mishaps before an alternative is found to be better. For oil transport that threshold has not been reached yet concerning train transport.

The emperor's crony Warren Buffett benefits ;and for Canadian companies ,there is an added cost of product because pipelines are also much more economical means of transporting the oil as well as safer .

[smoothy]

The people whining about the Oil company's and the pipeline are hypocrites because they run out and buy the products. I bet every one of them use Oil products... probably own cars, motorcycle, scooter etc... or even live in a place where electric is produced with fossil fuels. And not one are practicing what they preach.

[excon]

Hello smoothy:

That you think people who believe in climate change, need to live OFF the grid in a YURT, or they're hypocrites, is STUPID, STUPID, STUPID..

excon

[paraclete]

There are bigger issues here which are being avoided in this "I told you so piece". I agree with Tom large scale transport of crude oil and oil products by rail is undesirable, I also agree that we have to be environmentally responsible as to where we put pipelines and honestly it makes no sense to be transporting oil by any means south when there is under capacity in oil refining in eastern Canada and another pipeline project that is stalled. So the point is oil will be transported one way or another by one means or another and therefore politicians, environmentalists, native peoples in various places should grown up and respond to the issues

[smoothy]

Hello smoothy:

That you think people who believe in climate change, need to live OFF the grid in a YURT, or they're hypocrites, is STUPID, STUPID, STUPID..

excon

Ed Begley , and Daryl Hannah do it, I don't agree with either of them but I can respect they at least practice what they preach, then you have the biggest Hypocrite of all AL GORE who refuses to even fly commercial or give up two of his three mansions much less live in ONE reasonable energy effficient place.

And to show its not just towards liberals....I have the same disdain for televangelists and these megachurches as well.

[paraclete]

Ed Begley , and Daryl Hannah do it, I don't agree with either of them but I can respect they at least practice what they preach, then you have the biggest Hypocrite of all AL GORE who refuses to even fly commercial or give up two of his three mansions much less live in ONE reasonable energy effficient place.

And to show its not just towards liberals....I have the same disdain for televangelists and these megachurches as well.

I wonder if any of these environmentalists have lived off the grid and are prepared to forgo their hot showers and grow their own food. It is not as easy as you think. First you need land, then water and living in North America this may not seem a problem, however in other places it is, so is just providing enough fuel for cooking and heating, but then you don't need to cook you can eat raw vegetables and fry your eggs on a rock in the sun. There are certain things that are B/S in big letters and most of what these environmentalists talk of is. I lived off the grid once, I was very glad to get the power connected, I soon decided that I either worked or farmed full time and that even that would not be enough. It is very difficult to accumulate enough water all of the time even if you have large storages and getting the growing season right can be difficult

we must never confuse the making of money with our values otherwise you cannot resolve the conflict

[smoothy]

I wonder if any of these environmentalists have lived off the grid and are prepared to forgo their hot showers and grow their own food. It is not as easy as you think. First you need land, then water and living in North America this may not seem a problem, however in other places it is, so is just providing enough fuel for cooking and heating, but then you don't need to cook you can eat raw vegetables and fry your eggs on a rock in the sun. There are certain things that are B/S in big letters and most of what these environmentalists talk of is. I lived off the grid once, I was very glad to get the power connected, I soon decided that I either worked or farmed full time and that even that would not be enough. It is very difficult to accumulate enough water all of the time even if you have large storages and getting the growing season right can be difficult

we must never confuse the making of money with our values otherwise you cannot resolve the conflict

You don't even have to be totally off grid... I'm not that rigid on the practice what you preach thing. But those who can and do... get a lot more respect for doing it. I know its not easy.

[paraclete]

Thing is large numbers of people can't get away with it and I tell you all I got when I did it was disrespect, like I was some sort of fringe dweller. I love the peace of the open places but one has to be practical. Back to the piece, Canada needs to get a grip on the project and stop expecting someoneelse to do their refining, else sell the stuff for export and let the buyer build a pipeline to the coast, however I expect the flow isn't big enough to warrant it

[talaniman]

Fact - Trains don't derail by themselves and given the tracks aren't to blame then we have mechanical failure or human error.

Place your bets at this window.

@Tom, Economically viable??

FACT No Canadian tar sand crude will be used here in the US even though it's processed here. I have already asked why Canada and big oil haven't invested in their own refinery.

I guess that's not economically viable either. (Actually it's not!)

No new refinery has been built in Canada or the US in decades. Upgrading older facilities is far cheaper, and that's exactly what is happening. But this is the crux of the whole issue, Enbridge Resisting Final Clean-Up of Its Michigan Oil Spill | InsideClimate News,

The debate over the Kalamazoo cleanup underscores how little is known about dilbit and how to remove it from waterways.

This was the biggest and cost a billion bucks PLUS fines, so WHO paid for it?

Official Price of the Enbridge Kalamazoo Spill, A Whopping $1,039,000,000 | DeSmog Canada

Enbridge's most current application, a 'Certificate of Need for a Crude Oil Pipeline,' was presented to the Minnesota Public Utilities Commission this month as a part of Enbridge's “ongoing efforts to meet North America's needs for reliable and secure transportation of petroleum energy supplies” via the Alberta Clipper.

Taking bets at this window.

So with a history of oil spills, and a lousy plan for "accidents", building more pipelines is a huge costly risk for a transitional resource.

[Catsmine]

I got an idea.. Why don't we look for what's coming next?
excon

I have to agree here. Boondoggles aside, if the solar industry were treated the same way the oil industry is, solar would have been viable for the last 15 years.

Do NOT say Solyndra, because I will reply with the Teapot Dome. Boondoggles and frauds happen daily everywhere.

[talaniman]

I have to agree here. Boondoggles aside, if the solar industry were treated the same way the oil industry is, solar would have been viable for the last 15 years.

Do NOT say Solyndra, because I will reply with the Teapot Dome. Boondoggles and frauds happen daily everywhere.

Agreed! Also about Solyndra,

With Eye On 1 Gigawatt, SolarCity Moves Into Solyndra's Old Factory | ThinkProgress

SolarCity leases former Solyndra facility to house Silevo panel division - Silicon Valley Business Journal

This too was predictable.

[paraclete]

Cats

Renewables is whole other thing, the price of solar might be down but solar is not a clean industry, there are a lot of emissions and pollution in the manufacture of solar cells. It didn't start to become viable until it was manufactured in a place like China where the regs weren't so stringent and without China demand it still wouldn't be.

There are some really bad ideas and Canada tar sands is one of them, it really isn't necessary to do this, but Canada has refining capacity, if they can't get their pipeline up why aren't they doing the long haul on their own rail network? It is all crap really with big oil pulling all the strings

[Catsmine]

the price of solar might be down but solar is not a clean industry, there are a lot of emissions and pollution in the manufacture of solar cells.

So? Do you have ANY solutions? There are no "clean" energies. Copper mining is one of the most environmentally damaging industries there is, and ALL sources of energy depend on copper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copperhill,_Tennessee