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paraclete · Jul 15, 2015, 09:14 PM

One of the interesting outcomes of the Greek crisis is the move to boycott Germany

Who's calling on people to 'Boycott Germany'? - BBC News

Interestinly I have been proving how I can live without german products for years, I don't shop at Aldi, I don't drive a BMW or an Audi and I don't have any german products in my home tha I am aware of. However there are interesting implications here of the manner in which Germany, in particular, has shafted the Greeks. They have long forgotten that they were forgiven massive debts after WWII and that austerity like they inflicted on the greeks was the reason for the rise of right wing extremeism in their own nation.

tomder55 · Jul 16, 2015, 02:19 AM

What nonsense ! . I'll make it a point to eat a meal at our local Brauhaus in the next few days . Don't know what other German products I use ,but I'm sure they are made with the highest quality .

paraclete · Jul 16, 2015, 05:13 AM

Nonsense? No, responsible action by responsible people who have an opinion. You remember opinions Tom, they are like arseholes, everyone has one and sometimes you can't tell the difference

talaniman · Jul 16, 2015, 05:24 AM

If the Greeks collected taxes, they wouldn't need as much austerity. They sort of bent themselves over the barrel with that inability.

tomder55 · Jul 16, 2015, 05:24 AM

I have no problem with boycotts . It's misguided to blame Germany for the problems the Greeks brought upon themselves .

talaniman · Jul 16, 2015, 05:36 AM

I agree Tom, the Greeks have had many years to make adjustments, yet they didn't. Not worth me giving up German Chocolate Cake over.

tickle · Jul 16, 2015, 06:05 AM

Germany is one of the best run and successful countries in the European Union. They have come a long way to achieve this.

smoothy · Jul 16, 2015, 02:13 PM

I would suggest Boycotting Greece.

As was mentioned. Germany has gotten where they are through decades of hard work and discipline. They earned their position. Unlike Greece that was run with no discipline or accountability what so ever. And worse protesters thinking they are ENTITLED to free handouts without making ANY changes to everything or anything that got them into the mess to begin with.

If I ran the EU.. I would have told Greece if you want ANYTHING from us again (after several previous bailouts where they changed almost nothing)... these are the terms... take it or leave it. If they complained I'd pull that option from the table altogether. its OUR money and OUR risk... and WE lay down the conditions of any aid.

paraclete · Jul 16, 2015, 02:37 PM

Smoothy I think that is what was done it remains to be seen whether the will of the greek people is to change after centuries of tax evasion they may just see this as the return of empire

smoothy · Jul 16, 2015, 03:34 PM

They have a long history of socialist entitlement mentality. It's a hard habit to break... few people there actually know how to be responsible. The mindset as a culture just isn't there. That's not saying it won't ever change... just that its going to be a very hard lesson to learn before they can change. And its going to take some serious hardships before most of them will.

Greece isn't alone with that mindset in Europe...they are just the worst.

paraclete · Jul 16, 2015, 03:58 PM

Yes it is a legacy of communism and socialist thinking, When I see the VAT there I shake my head but if you can't collect income tax you have to get it somehow, they must be among the laziest people in the world. What I don't get is why they haven't slapped a massive property tax on the place, it is not like socialist governments not to be innovative about collecting taxes

tomder55 · Jul 17, 2015, 03:27 AM

VAT would be ok and preferable, if they eliminated income taxes . But having both is over the line.

paraclete · Jul 17, 2015, 08:30 AM

What nonsense. The idea of taxation is to extract the maximum fleece from the sheep with a minimum of bleeting. There are various methods for doing this. You can die the death of a thousand cuts or you can give it all up in one blow. VAT is an efficient method of collecting tax unfortunately it is regressive, that is it hurts those least able to pay the most. I thought you were in favour of such methods so as to allow the wealthy to minimise their tax. Greece is an example of tax minimisation gone mad until the rate of tax has to be continually increased because the collection methodology is inefficient. Why do you think we have a tax rate of 10% and they have a rate of 23%? It is because the method of collecting tax operates to collect based both on income and expenditure. They can't collect tax on income effectively so they have a VAT.

You on the other hand have an effective collection methodology, unfortunately the rates are set too low and you run continual deficits which will lead you into the same dilemma as Greece. It si a problem of advanced economies that have sucked on the teat of growth too long

tomder55 · Jul 17, 2015, 09:05 AM

oh yeah ,we are under taxed ...lolololololol !!!! It's always the same story ...it's never that government spending is out of control . It's never that the government makes too many promises to redistribute too much of other people's money . I favor consumption taxes over income taxes . Not every earns income . But people who have money spend it . Consumption taxes also encourages savings ....something EVERYONE says that we don't do enough of .

But if we insist on taxing income ,it should be a single rate /no exceptions ,deductions ,credits etc .

paraclete · Jul 17, 2015, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

oh yeah ,we are under taxed ...lolololololol !!!! It's always the same story ...it's never that government spending is out of control . It's never that the government makes too many promises to redistribute too much of other people's money . I favor consumption taxes over income taxes . Not every earns income . But people who have money spend it . Consumption taxes also encourages savings ....something EVERYONE says that we don't do enough of .

But if we insist on taxing income ,it should be a single rate /no exceptions ,deductions ,credits etc .

Always with the let's tax the poor because it is fair. A VAT certainly fits in your plan so why are you against it. You have a flat rate tax on corporations and it is so ineffective that you have to find a way of taxing the population more effectively, You have Obamacare a tax but is it flat rate or can the rich opt for a higher level of service? No the poor have to be looked after by subsidy so set your flat rate tax at 50% and subsidise the poor, you might balance your budget. I don't think you will because your idiot politicians will still want to glad hand their constituents

tomder55 · Jul 18, 2015, 02:13 AM

Always with the let's tax the poor because it is fair.

Maybe you think they should get a free ride ? A VAT taxes exactly the way you like it . The rich spend more and are thus are taxed more .

You have a flat rate tax on corporations and it is so ineffective that you have to find a way of taxing the population more effectively

It probably won't suprise you to learn that I think taxing businesses at all is a waste of time and resources . All corporate taxes get passed on to their customers in higher prices so what's the point ?

paraclete · Jul 18, 2015, 06:00 AM

Tom your ideology stinks, Who do you think created the poor? It is a great shame the French revolution didn't happen in your country. Loping a few founders heads might have made a difference, but the French reverse engineered your idea and look what they came up with. They solved the problem of the rich at least for a while but eventually, like you, they thought they could conquer the world and introduce their system of government and law everywhere

Nothing surprises me about your ideology, By the standard of your thinking your shouldn't tax the population because they will pass it back to the employer in higher wages. You are completely illogical, it is no wonder a person like Trump could think that he would gain support. Your whole system is smoke and mirrors and you wonder why you get nothing done

Catsmine · Jul 18, 2015, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

Who do you think created the poor?

Wasn't that the guy that invented the idea of property? A Greek, wasn't he?

tomder55 · Jul 18, 2015, 07:09 AM

but the French reverse engineered your idea and look what they came up with.

Napolean's dictatorship

it is no wonder a person like Trump could think that he would gain support

Not from me ;Trump is a rent seeking crony corporatist ;the type of business man tailor made for the type of government you like .

paraclete · Jul 18, 2015, 02:45 PM

Ha Ha Trump could never get anywhere in our political system, We had one like him at the last election, thought he could buy the elctorate, we haven't heard from him in months, it is hard to even remember his name but not many bought a PUP.