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pastor1189 · Jun 24, 2015, 05:16 PM

Circuit 24: has two 20 amp breakers is in one piece. Two wires are only attached to the top breaker. It seems the bottom breaker is a spare.When it trips only the top breaker trips. The 20amp top breaker serves window ac/washing machine/ refrigerator/ computer/
But they are not on, at the same time. Question is the bottom breaker just a spare?? Too bad it couldn't be use on circuit 24, to share the load?

the picture is exactly like the one I have. Except it is two 20 amps. In tandem.
But when it trips only the top switch goes over. The bottom one does nothing??

hkstroud · Jun 24, 2015, 06:24 PM

That is two separate breakers that fit in one space. If one of the breakers has two wires attached (it shouldn't) move one wire to the other breaker. Of course it would be a good idea to turn the breaker off while doing this.

pastor1189 · Jun 25, 2015, 03:37 AM

Yes the top switch is the one that trips over. The bottom switch doesn't seem to control anything in this dual unit breaker. Two black wires one going to the top breaker and the second to the bottom breaker. When you switch the top breaker
The circuit goes off. When you switch the second nothing happens.
Thanks again

hkstroud · Jun 25, 2015, 04:26 AM

Two black wires one going to the top breaker and the second to the bottom breaker.

What does that mean? If there is a wire attached to the bottom breaker, it is not a spare, it controls something.

pastor1189 · Jun 25, 2015, 05:45 AM

Wow that is strange. I turn everything on. And just shut off the bottom switch
And nothing was effected? Thanks

Stratmando · Jun 25, 2015, 08:43 AM

Fridge should be on its own. If you turn on one breaker and another trips, May be powered from 2 circuits on opposite phases. When you have both on, the weaker one trips and is powered by the stronger breaker? Can't tell if its Number 12, if so, you can increase to 20 amp breaker.

pastor1189 · Jun 25, 2015, 09:08 AM

When the top switch breaker trips. Window Ac/ Washing machine/Fridge/computer
They all go off. If they are all on at the same time.

Now the bottom breaker switch doesn't move. If you switch the bottom switch off and leave the top on. Everything says on. It seems the bottom breaker switch
Doesn't seem to effect anything. This weekend I will test the bottom breaker
Again?

donf · Jun 25, 2015, 10:36 AM

Pastor,

To begin with, please do not open a new thread to respond to an item.

Next, the breaker in question is a dual 15 amp breaker. Both breakers are on the same phase.

Before you go and place 20 amp circuit breakers into this panel position, make absolutely certain that the black conductors connected to this breaker for the entire length of both circuits are 12 (Typo 12 not 20) AWG wires. If they are not, you cannot place a 20 amp breaker into the circuit, it is a fire hazzard

As indicated earlier, the refrigerator should be on its own circuit. More than likely, the refrigerator is the culprit. When something else is on and the refrigerator cycles ON, the current draw causes the circuit to trip.

The lower breaker is connected to something, otherwise there would not be a wire connected to it.

pastor1189 · Jun 25, 2015, 10:58 AM

Yes don you are so correct in every aspect. The breaker combo which is two 20 amp are brand new.
The lower 20 amp must be for something. Both wires are black and are 20 AWG.each
The mystery now is to see what the lower 20 Amp supplies power to??
Don't want to be a bother to the folks. Thank you

donf · Jun 25, 2015, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by pastor1189

Yes don you are so correct in every aspect. The breaker combo which is two 20 amp are brand new.
The lower 20 amp must be for something. Both wires are black and are 20 AWG.each
The mystery now is to see what the lower 20 Amp supplies power to??
Don't want to be a bother to the folks. Thank you

Pastor,

You are not a bother. Please forgive the typo in my earlier response. The 20 AWG wire should have read 12 AWG, not 20 AWG.

The dual breaker that is pictured in this thread is a 15 amp dual breaker. Look at the handles you will see the 15 amp embossed on them.

If you have a dual 20 amp breaker actually installed and those wires are 14 AWG, then you have a potential fire condition as well as an electrical code violation. If as you state the wires are 20 AWG, then 1) they are not listed for use in a 15 Amp circuit (2) They are a serious concern for melting and causing a fire!

I will have to look up the ampacity listing for 20 AWG, but I think it is only 11 amp and if you are using a 20 amp breaker you will be allowing as much as 20 amps through the wire before the breaker trips. Put the fire department on your speed dial. :)

pastor1189 · Jun 25, 2015, 12:36 PM

That because I didn't want to go to the power box and take a picture. The picture is an exactly replica except mine is two 20 Amp breakers. The wires have been there since 1979. You are too kind

hkstroud · Jun 25, 2015, 02:36 PM

The question right now is whether or not there is a wire to the bottom breaker?

pastor1189 · Jun 25, 2015, 03:23 PM

Yes there is a wire to the bottom.. But I do not know what it controls. When I switch it off, nothing happens.

hkstroud · Jun 25, 2015, 03:45 PM

Then it controls something. Turn it off, eventually you will find something that doesn't work. When you know that you can then decide if you can move one of the wires from the top breaker to the bottom breaker, and have a better balanced load.

You said top breaker controls

window ac/washing machine/ refrigerator/ computer/

Turn top breaker off and remove one wire. After removing one wire, tighten screw on top breaker. Turn top breaker back on. Then see what works.

Then you will know that what works is on the wire that is connected to the top breaker. What doesn't work is connected to the wire that you removed from the top breaker.

Put a piece of tape on the wire you removed from the top breaker. Turn top breaker back off. Put the wire you removed back on the top breaker. Turn top breaker back on.

When you find out what is on the bottom breaker you can decide if you would have a better balanced load by moving one of the wires on the top breaker, and which one, to the bottom breaker.

pastor1189 · Jun 26, 2015, 03:32 AM

If you remove the black wire from the top breaker. Window-ac/Washing machine/ Fridge/Computer all go off. If you reapply it again they come on.
Now the bottom breaker so far doesn't effect the top breaker.
If I find somehow an outlet maybe in the utility room, that is control by that lower breaker, I sure could use it, to balance the circuit?

Missouri Bound · Jun 27, 2015, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Turn top breaker off and remove one wire.

AND PUT A WIRE NUT ON IT!!
It's VERY possible that that additional wire is connected to the circuit and removing it, then turning the breaker back on will energize that wire as well.
And let me throw this in as the "devil's advocate".
Are you sure and are you experienced enough to be working in this panel?

Stratmando · Jul 10, 2015, 05:35 AM

Verify voltage is coming out of bottom breaker, an amprobe will tell if you have a load on it. If you have a wiggy. You could remove bottom wire and look for voltage between the removed wire and the breaker, If it has a load, the wiggy will show voltage. A very light load may not be enough to show. Good Luck

pastor1189 · Jul 10, 2015, 06:57 AM

Yes the dual breakers, the top 20 amp carries a lot of items
Whereas the bottom 20 amp breaker only controls the kitchens lights
And one outlet in the dining area. It is separate on to itself.

donf · Jul 10, 2015, 08:15 AM

Pastor,

Move the refrigerator to that circuit.