[Hyouka]

Hello, I'm 19. I'm a nice person, I identify myself as an altruist(I try to compromise, so I wouldn't end up hurting myself), an extrovert and a guy with strong sense of values, I try to search for meaning in everything and try to play my part in this world. I have a girlfriend, we're together for 4 months, everything happened so quickly with her, we've got along extremely well, I didn't even hit on her, we just hit it off. It seemed(seems?) that we're getting along, our life goals cross paths, have very similar values, tastes and hobbies.

(I should mention this upfront, she was cheated on in first relationship, and was desperate for a long time, as she claims) Of course there are some drawbacks, she has a history with guys, she slept with 6 guys(she's seventeen, most "~90%" girls are like this these days, unless they don't go outside), and she's sent nudes to at least 4 guys(that I know about), of course she denied sending nudes in the past, but later I found out that truth is different. Normally, most guys don't mind this and have a history("proud history") as well(In my experience).

But I'm different, I've never played this cat and mouse game, I don't have a long history(1 girlfriend, who cheated on me), I've always searched for meaningful relationships(unsuccessfully it seems), for true , pure love, I want to grow up surrounded by loved ones, who truly care about me, but I am also a very outgoing guy, and emotional closeness is a very important aspect of my life, it's too hard to be alone(been for 18 years), searching for a similar girl, who may not exist.(before her, I was convinced, a girl like me doesn't exist)Truth be told, I wouldn't have ever considered her to be my girlfriend and it may seem dumb of me, that I ended up with her.

Before I fell in love with her(I sincerely think I did) I didn't know much of her past, only that there were many "friends - one night stands", and she was cheated on, desperate to find a nice guy(like me). Knowing this, I overlooked her past (I was-am convinced, she's closest to one I would like to be with) and let myself get very close to her.But after we fell in love, I found out she lied about sending nudes. Now I found out she's keeping in contact with those one night stands and guys who hit on her and got her nudes(all were very close friends, or 1-4 week boyfriends).This, and her behavior (she's hot, so many guys hit on her, she acts VERY friendly with them all) and few more reasons lead me to believe that she is the opposite of what I want.

Looking at her past, I thought she learned(the hard way), what love is, what relationships are about, and how bad is it to not treasure your soul and body, that I consider sacred and the thing that our future lives depend on(if you don't treasure love and your body, how can you have a loving marriage? No judgement, but don't argue, I'm open minded, but I won't change my mind). So I thought she became like me, learned of values, even if the hard way, I may have a bright future with her, she may be the one. But now I find(I happened to get her Facebook with her blessing) that she is still talking with those guys she's slept, or sent nudes to, and talking very very friendly, they flirt, ask for pictures, send their "6 packs" but tell her that they aren't hitting on her(oh yes they are, she's just naïve --- as you can see from before). Also, she has those guys on snapchat, if you don't know about it, it's a phone application which lets you chat with real time photos, which delete themselves after being sent.

Again, this leads me to believe she hasn't learned of values, she just thinks she loves me, I'm just a guy to have fun with and feel loved for the time being. And while those past shadows are still haunting our relationship, I cannot trust her, I cannot let myself feel affection , I simply care about her and want her to be happy, and I feel like this about many female friends(just because I'm a nice person).

Thank you for reading. To clarify : I was lonely for most of my life, lost hope that there are any girls like me, until she appeared in my life(best girl I've ever met, and I've got to know at least 1000 girls my age since I was 16). She had a history, which I didn't like, but I overlooked it and let us fall in love. We've been together for 4 months, but I found that she's in contact and letting past "boyfriends" flirt with her(she doesn't see it that way sadly -- she thinks she's just chatting, and thinks it sincerely) , also there's the secretive snapchat. I know she, at least, thinks she loves me sincerely, and she has the character which I like and is rare(in my experience). But letting those guys from her past haunt our relationship leads me to believe that she isn't trustworthy, that she doesn't regret her past one bit, this ultimately means she isn't the person I thought she is.

To be fair, I don't want to control whom she can talk to and whom she can't, I give her freedom, but the way she acts, isn't the way a person with values act. (I'll throw additional fire to justify my doubts, recently she told her ex boyfriend that she loves him as a friend,and he's the one who cheated on her and ruined her childhood, recently, she told at least 3 guys she's sent nudes to that they should be models and are making her drool. In the past, she confessed her love to at least 10 guys, past meaning 2-3 years back)

In conclusion, I will ask again, is this the end? I cannot make her change her life completely, and I cannot stand those guys haunting us, and her acting this way, I do not trust her anymore and I do not think that she's the one, meaning we should part ways, although I want to stay with her badly, but I can't be with her like this. At this rate, we're through.
I don't want to be judged(I did go against my beliefs being with her), or her to be judged, also I can't afford a professional to help me(I'm a student who has to eat rice and instant soup just to get by). I just want you to be emphatic and tell me , what would you do in my shoes? And is it possible for us to compromise and stay together? I'm feeling hopeless at this point. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

P.S. We have no drama between us, everything is smooth(on the outside), it's just that I do not believe us to be right for each other because of her actions in the present, not the past, and I may be wrong, hence, this question!

[joypulv]

You forgot to mention how old she is. Assuming that she is around your age, her behavior is pretty typical, a teen still testing the waters and learning about people. It isn't easy to tell from what you write how much she loves you, cares about you, considers you the love of her life - you dwell so much on every little detail of what other guys she interacts with, and in what ways. You seem to be open to not being jealous about her past (good!), but it is understandable to be jealous of the present, as long as you aren't imagining things based on her past. If she is crossing whatever line makes you feel uncomfortable, then all the attributes that made you click when you fell for her are out the window. ALL of us have to face the fact that people we fall for don't often turn out to be who we thought they were when we met.

Is this the end, you ask. You sort of answered your own question, which is often what asking is about (especially when you practically wrote a book). You chose to write about all her flirtings and how they go over a line. Personally they don't sound so bad to me, especially being friends with an ex. I detect a hint of too much concern on your part, and that maybe you are magnifying some innocent actions. And you sound like a snoop. Being 'friends' on Facebook allows you to see everything except messages, so why did you feel a need to get her 'blessing' to get into her messages? And she isn't doing anything to hide them either, usually a sign that someone isn't doing anything that can be considered cheating.

I'm taking both sides as you can see... the choice of course is yours. You tell us: is she going over the line, or are you too jealous of harmless interactions?

[talaniman]

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dating...om-803614.html

My reply was, https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dating...ml#post3696106

it's just that I do not believe us to be right for each other because of her actions in the present, not the past, and I may be wrong, hence, this question!

Leave her alone because you cannot accept her for what she is or deal with your own feelings in positive ways. It's not her, it's you, and how you deal with yourself. Not judging either of you YOUNG people, just stating the obvious.

[joypulv]

Ah, she's 17, I see from your older post. This one should have been a continuation.
That means the odds are VERY high that she is going to bask in the attention of guys in HER GRADE. You don't say if you are in school or not, but sometimes 17 to 19 is a huge gulf.
Aside from that, I think you need to examine your noble thoughts. You aren't as wise, mature, thoughtful, and understanding of boundaries between people as you like to say you are. Your mind is clouded with the same jealousies as the next person.

[Hyouka]

joypulv You gave me something to think about, I may be too concerned, but I am not jealous, If she switches sides, I won't fight for her (not worth fighting for, if she does that), that's why I'm trying to prevent it, I don't mind her being friends with ex's, but in my opinion she is crossing the lines that I do not wish to be crossed, and it makes me give up. I'll try to think outside the box, and change, following my views, either everything is perfect or everything is hell in a relationship , not really wise :)


talaniman Your opinion is quite correct, but my words made you think this way and before, my previous post was very biased and based on emotions(I wish I could take it back). If the light bulb gets broken, you don't buy a new house, you repair the light bulb . Just because we have some issues, doesn't mean we have some sort of abusive relationship. She wants to keep me, so do I, we just have some very opposite opinions on these particular topics, and it makes me wonder, if it's something we can put behind us and find a compromise, we are YOUNG people like you said, we can still change our views and resolve our differences.
As much as I appreciate your insight, if you suggest to abandon the ship, after a wave hits it, I wonder how you can sustain a relationship for over 10 months, because this phase, when a lot of problems and dramas occur, happens in every relationship at some point.
for refference, stage 2 .


P.S. I've always though of myself as an eccentric, since birth, I've always seemed different. Eccentricity is considered a mental illness, an unholy sword(double edged sword). For instance, I was running around like crazy at school during breaks with others until I was 7, then I realized it's stupid, others realized this when they were at least 9. I have great intellect, deducing, analyzing, memory skills. I see hidden patterns, and have very unique views in these times. I can use this to my advantage most of the times, but it bites me in the sometimes(with relationships for example) .
I'm very rarely understood as a person, I've always seemed to jump ahead of everything("I've never played this cat and mouse game"), and I'm usually right, it's not something that can be fixed, so I have to work my way around and compromise . Help me understand, rather than telling me I'm weird or crazy , taliman

[Hyouka]

joypulv, please do not use my previous topic as a reference. I know I'm not wise, I've stated why in "P.S."(short story, I have high IQ, a unique perspective, which many people disagree with, so I am not wise , siding with the minority, therefore stupid in a way, but I can't help it) . Also, previous post was written in 4AM, when my mind was clouded, heavily clouded I admit, I regret saying everything, it's just that I've never expressed myself, all the feelings, grudges of my life were bundled into these VERY LONG posts . This post, was written with a cool head !
P.S. I never express my self like this to others, because I can't express myself in a short, reasonable manner, also, I've found others give very lame advice(they might tell a pregnant and depressed woman to be not pregnant so she wouldn't be depressed...) :D everything is so complicated in my head, and I need people like you.

[talaniman]

You both are young and inexperienced prone to misjudgements and mistakes, not weird(?) nor crazy(?) and its normal to hold onto what you think you want. How can you know after just 10 months? My point has always been its good to go as long as you both put up with each others crap, but don't expect any changes any time soon, and the odds that you will both stay together forever is really quite small.

You both are at different places in your lives with different priorities and styles and values. Life is what it is my young friend but you have MORE than just a bad light bulb at your house at this time. You have a new stranger in it with different ideas from yours, and SHE wants a NEW HOUSE. And your evaluation as to what level your relationship is at is not only flawed but unrealistic (but NORMAL for a love struck young person). YOU both are still learning each other.

10 months is nothing (maybe to you it is). You are but attempting the best you can to cope with your partners reality. Still stage ONE of your own reference. It's a BIG RED FLAG when such conflicts (mostly YOURS) have put such a damper on the honeymoon phase.

Deal with it, or leave it alone is the simple suggestion, as understanding comes later, after you build an understanding together that works for you both. If you cannot then you won't learn and grow together, you will grow apart. You are always required to deal with your own dignity, and self respect though.

[Hyouka]

Great response! Although she claims she has similar values, such as love, being friendly and so on. But her actions and past make me doubt she cares much about love, she did tell many guys she loves them, and she tells me she didn't love them, and I am the most important one she ever met.
If it was only her past in concern, I could get over it and believe her. But when she's sending pictures(non-nude, but showing off her figure and such) to other guys, telling them compliments and fishing for them aswell. It's really hard for me to believe her because of this, I know she won't cheat on me(as a fact), but in my book she acts as if she wants to, and this hinders me from letting us have a happy and peaceful relationship.
Let's say it's NORMAL for her and other girls to act this way, and I don't consider it this way, but many teenagers act this way so it's considered socially acceptable(but lets not argue about this).
OK, so it's normal, but , the hell? She was like this before, and got a really bad reputation(some people laugh at me for being with her, but i don't really care) , she says she's sorry for such past, was desperate, she wanted attention, was sad because others are happy and she can't find anywhere a nice guy(really bad way to find one by sending nudes), most guys are cheaters and etc.
And she's telling me she's changed with me, she now knows of love, cares for me and etc. She says she changed, and she did a little. YET , she still acts like before with other guys, still flirts, sends them pictures, she doesn't seem changed at all, and I don't know if I can trust her.
P.S. I will talk to her tomorrow about this!

[joypulv]

I apologize if I sounded extremely harsh. I forgot to mention that I was not much different at 19. Intelligent people have a sometimes fatal flaw: they can talk circles around themselves and anyone else and can rationalize absolutely any viewpoint.

[Hyouka]

No worries, I know of these flaws , but I guess I have to live and learn the hard way like the rest. On the previous message I've really progressed to explaining the root of the problem and reasons. Only figured out this myself just now! And yes, you could tell me 1 word, and I could speak whole day about it ;)

[Homegirl 50]

You and this young lady are not on the same page no matter what you may feel for each other. She does not suit you and you apparently do not really suit her.
Walk away. She is not the one.

[Hyouka]

The funny thing about love is that you usually end up with a person, who is a complete opposite of you. I'm prepared for the worst, I will accept my fate, but for now, I do wish to at least try to coincide

[Homegirl 50]

Someone being the opposite of you and being incompatible or not suited are two different things. You two are not suited.

[Hyouka]

Life works in mysterious ways. Sometimes you fall in love, and later, wake up next to a person, who is actually a complete opposite, people usually break up after realizing that, and in the end they end up figuring out more about themselves, what they want, what they don't want. And most of you suggest me to break up, but in life, there are only few people, who are compatible with each other, and in my situation, I'm afraid - none. Also, I'm not interested treating relationships the traditional way, which usually ends up in 35% divorce rate, broken hearts, ruined lives, depression , alcoholism and a tiny chance of happiness and a relationship 'till death
There's only 1 girl I've ever met, who was like me, she felt the same way, but we were classmates and couldn't make it work.
And my current girl, is the closest I've to what I want, probably the closest I could find(should've mentioned, I live in a country with ~2.4 million people).
I want to make it work, I just don't know how, should I get her to get over her past guys, who are still haunting us, or should I just become another brick in the wall, lose my beliefs, and flow with the stream into unknown? Life is too short for me to #yolo like the rest do, in my opinion, life is short, so we should value it and give it our best, not the other way around, which is the traditional way of thinking , and I just can't accept that

[Homegirl 50]

You can't get her to do anything. You don't have that right. She is who she is. If you don't like it, you move on. You don't expect someone to change to suit you.
You are young and have a lot of maturing to do. What you are looking for now will no doubt be different when you are older.

[Hyouka]

You can't get her to do anything. You don't have that right. She is who she is. If you don't like it, you move on. You don't expect someone to change to suit you.

I'm afraid, there are only a couple of people who suit me, as for myself, I'm willing to change(become more/less caring, going out more, staying inside more, enjoying some other activities etc.)
I realize, I have no right to make her change and become "a happy person"(from my point of view --- I'm not forcing my ideals onto her, but at the very least, I want her to get rid of her past adventure "friends" who are dragging her down, and me along with her -- as long as I'm with her). But I simply can't find any girls(not taken) my age , who at the very least, share the same ideals. So I must give it a shot, and try to convince her to get those past boyfriends(who want to take her away sincerely or secretly -- and at least for a short time -- she knows this, and she chooses me - a long term partner).if this condition is met and those past partners are gone, I'm confident we can mature together, learn to live with our differences and be happy(our idea of long term happiness is identical)

You are young and have a lot of maturing to do. What you are looking for now will no doubt be different when you are older.

(kinda off topic, but I enjoy discussing this as well - might learn something)
I looked up some information, 53% marriage to divorce ratio in my country(Also USA - Source : wiki, data from - 2010) , not to mention how many families stay together just for the kids and other reasons.
I do not want to be a part of this broken heart cycle, I simply refuse to change my ideals, and become a part of this "socially normal people" who are on a path of divorce and a sad life(High probability for many people, not 100%, but the definition of my happiness of life is happy relationships, so - 99% that I will be unhappy if I change)

I'm basing my "truths" on statistics and experiences of my life and people I know. I may not be "mature" but statistically, at the very least, 50% of "mature" people do not know how to live.

And I know I am right, the way people live(are hardwired to live that way) isn't the way to reach a happy marriage(happy life from my perspective - my happiness is a happy marriage) .

We are not living the same lives, our grand parents, or even our parents lived. Times change - so must we change our way to live , and I believe this traditional way of living, is a really bad way to live(having short term happiness, and long term sadness -- at least in my case. Some might enjoy living carelessly for ~30 years or so, and facing consequences for the rest of their lives -- not me)

And at least at the moment, I see the road which leads to "the happy people club", and along this road there are no random hookups, no flirting around, lying -- basically - f*ing around carelessly. There is only compassion, empathy, compromises and following values(not money or short term hormone fun).

And I realize that my opinion is a complete opposite of almost everyone in the world, but I have my facts, I did my homework, been there, done that. I did study psychology and sociology for 3 years(Enough to realize, I know more than a "common mature person" yet I know almost nothing)

Also, I'd rather live lonely all my life, than settle down with someone, who is on the road to destruction(from my point of view, that would be 99.99% girls) and I believe she has the potential to realize this, she does agree with me on these kinds of things(usually, unless it involves her changing).

I have other goals besides having a happy marriage, my 2nd goal is helping out people, being successful, becoming a mentor, teacher or something of that sort(nothing specific at the moment). But firstly, I want to try to make my 1st goal a reality.

P.S. no judgement, different people have different definition of happiness, and different goals. But with my goals, the only correct road I see, is the one I'm following.

[Cat1864]

This is going to sound harsh, but please think about it. I have read all of your posts and think you need to slow down. You sound like you plan to marry her before she turns 18 or you turn 20, whichever comes first.

You need to stop thinking that your life is over before you are even 20 years old. You aren't an old man at the end of his life looking for any companionship you can find. She isn't an old woman who has lived her life and learned what love is and has decided to settle for the first 'nice guy' to come along.

You are 19. She is 17. You are both still learning what love and being in love is all about.

Life is short, but you aren't valuing it. You are treating it and her like a possession you can control. Your best seems to be making things conform to your beliefs. Where in your belief system is working to understand that she has her own beliefs (that are growing and changing as she does) and you can accept them or you can walk away and give yourself time to find someone who is better suited to you and your life.

[Hyouka]

Thank you for spending the time and reading.
I didn't find this harsh at all! I appreciate the criticism, advice, and opinions, as long as it's based!

You sound like you plan to marry her before she turns 18 or you turn 20, whichever comes first.

I realized yet again, I'm not that good at speaking my mind clearly. I do sound like I plan to marry her. I don't plan that yet, I just want to try and make our relationship work, it might not, but "try" is the key word here.

You need to stop thinking that your life is over before you are even 20 years old.

My future does depend on my choices(not completely), I see my future in a linear fashion.

Let's say I'm with her here and now-> we make it work -> we emigrate to different town(our capital, with universities), get degrees -> we find a house , settle down, work -> live together = happy.

And the opposite - I'm with her here and now -> we fail to make it work -> I'm alone -> I get degree, along the way I "might" find someone else, similar to me(not probable) -> Again, "maybe" we make it work -> settle down -> be happy.

So I'm choosing the path, which is more likely to lead to my goal. Nevertheless, I like her overall. It's logical and emotionally satisfying that I stick with her.

She isn't an old woman who has lived her life and learned what love is and has decided to settle for the first 'nice guy' to come along.

You are 19. She is 17. You are both still learning what love and being in love is all about.

In the beginning, I didn't expect much from her, she was the one, who wanted to stay with me for a long time, talking about future and us . Telling me, that I will always be a part of heart, her first real love, important to her.... and we will stay friends even if things go south (Cutest thing any girl has ever said to me).
Therefore, I started considering this as an option, and with time, I started believing it's possible more and more. And she's less and less lately (I've been a lame boyfriend for a while, because of stated reasons)

We both agree that we are compatible, and our paths really cross, same town to study, same life goals(settling down, having fun, having family etc). Simply put, we basically want the same thing, and our characters coincide, but we have some issues as you can see.

Life is short, but you aren't valuing it

I don't follow.

You are treating it and her like a possession you can control

Yes, I am treating life as if I can control it, though I admit, I can't do it completely, I try to do my best.

And I admit, I try to control her, a little, so does she try to do the same. For example, she wants me to go out more, but this way, we overcame many differences, and our happiness is growing each time, so I see no problem.

Your best seems to be making things conform to your beliefs

Isn't that what all/most people do? And excluding relationships, my beliefs and reality is the same, I'm open-minded about "things" , excluding relationships.

Where in your belief system is working to understand that she has her own beliefs (that are growing and changing as she does)

At the moment, the only major thing that we disagree on, is the boundaries, of what is acceptable while talking to other people.

It's well known, that girls usually don't hit on guys, so she doesn't really see how I talk to other girls, who hit on me -- I simply make it clear that I'm not interested, by saying "I'm not interested" which my girlfriend fails to do, for some reason(this bugs me). And I keep talking friendly, about things friends talk about, not about how great we are and what great couple we could be(friends don't talk that way).

A very close friend, or past partner, hits on her , saying something like "You are amazing, I wish we could be together" and she doesn't make it clear, that she's not interested, just changes the topic or replies with a compliment , simply put, she doesn't say whether she's interested or not --- staying "neutral" (She claims she loves me, so I keep asking myself - why??).
I know that she believes this is okay and has no meaning, but those guys keep coming, she's thinking, they are friends, they think, that she can be lured(faking friendship, I also have friends who do that, even to ~10 girls at a time, and girls never realize this!! )
I also have very good female friends, whom I helped out a lot, fixed their relationships countless times(okay maybe 3-5). Simply put, we share our experiences and what I found out, girls are naive(young one's) and only a couple of them know this and this "fake friend" play usually works!! There's a saying(sorry for profanity) A shoulder to cry on, is a d*ck to ride on.( Those guys are constantly trying to give her the warm shoulder, and butting in our life, while telling her they want her(indirectly usually) )
I admit, I always provide a shoulder to cry on for my female friends, but I give out advice, tell them everything will be okay, life's not over and etc. They tell my girlfriend stuff like, "you'll get over him/there are plenty fish in the sea-me :D" -- wow, such advice, really said for the purpose of simply helping out...

In addition, I am insecure, If I know, that if there's a threat, and my girl doesn't know this, and plays right into the trap, I can't help but feel this way, even if she wouldn't do anything wrong no matter what! I don't know if she doesn't realize what they do, or if she doesn't want to, whatever the reason, facts are facts, and they should go away.

P.S. You are right, we are growing, learning, since I've wrote this topic, I've learned so much and changed a lot. And she is growing, I want us to grow together, even if our paths separate someday.

[Homegirl 50]

You are both young. Allow this girl to live her life. You take yourself way to serious. I don't mean to be rude but you don't have a clue. Enjoy your youth and let her enjoy hers.
You think if she stops talking to these boys she will change. She is who she is. Why should she not talk to her friends for you?

[talaniman]

My young friend you have just begun to identify the things in yourself and about yourself that you must deal with, and have not yet even faced the challenges of life. Nice you have a plan, but be prepared to make adjustment and many of them on your journey through life.

Especially when you learn you barely can control yourself, and have no control over others, let alone what life throws at you. Be grateful for what you have now while you have it, because chances are it will be gone tomorrow and new challenges will be before you.

You will always have changes to figure out. So will she, whether you are together, or apart.