[talaniman]

Well Tom, Clete, you don't go against the guys with guns, with rocks and sticks.

[paraclete]

Tal there is probably a large number of weapons in the palestinian population and a few hundred terrorists but as was said earlier, these people elected Hamas and approved of their actions, you easily forget they stood on their rooftops and cheered on 9/11 so spare me the crocodile tears

[talaniman]

Sorry I don't buy your assumptions, nor your assessment of people stuck in an imposed ghetto.

[smoothy]

SELF imposed and slef created Ghetto. The Gaza strip was a far nicer place before Hamas got control of it.

[talaniman]

Every place is nicer before the NUTS with guns show up.

[smoothy]

Hardly... sometimes the guys with the guns turn it ito a nicer place... sometimes they don't. It all depends on who they are to begin with.

[paraclete]

Yes you don't have to look far from home to see what the nuts with guns created, but I digress. Gaza was undoubtedly a nice place before 1948 but a mass migration of palestinians spoiled it. Those people went there by choice they were not forced to do so. This is the result of religious zealotry and generational hatred

[smoothy]

Chicago? Los Angeles?

[paraclete]

Unable to draw a comparison when were these cities bombed?

[smoothy]

In LA, 1965, by the Blacks. Google Watts riots

Chicago... its been under siege by the criminal element since Before Al Capone.

[paraclete]

Yes well I didn't think you needed to go that far

[tomder55]

But if the Iron Dome is working, why do they have to even reduce Gaza to rubble?

umm.... the idea is to STOP the rocket launches ;not to forever have to pick them out of the sky counting on 100% accuracy .

Well Tom, Clete, you don't go against the guys with guns, with rocks and sticks.

if you have superior force you use it. Are you suggesting that if the Palestinians are using rocks that Israel should respond with rocks ? Strange .

[paraclete]

I'm being verballed again

Yes it is part of the measured response, the palestinians throw rocks, the Israeli's should throw rocks, but when the palestinians throw rockets the israeli's are not supposed to retaliate with rockets launched from planes, you see, the debate is onesided because no one is supposed to get dead from these exercises in poor judgement. What I suggest is the Israeli arm themselves with trebuchet and when the palestinians throw rocks... Nowhere in the world is civil disorder not met with force, so when the palestinians throw rockets, they should get an equal number back.....
,
I never suggested the Israeli shouldn't use what they have at their disposal, perhaps be a little more discerning in their target, but then I also have the view that the problem will not be solved until all those palestinians are removed from Gaza. Perhaps if the Israeli were armed with rubber bullets as were security forces in other places with urban unrest then the response would hurt but not necessarily kill. Water cannons can also make a big mess

[tomder55]

what you conveniently fail to mention is that Hamas use the Palestinian people as human shields. I am reminded that the allies completely destroyed the French city of Caen ,and 1570 other French cities liberating them from Nazi occupation. 68,778 French were killed in these attacks. The bombing of Caen and other Normandy towns cost 50,000 civilian deaths. Like the Israelis ,the allies did their best to let the civilian population know that they needed to evacuate the target areas . But the presence of civilians did not stop the allies from their military objectives.

[smoothy]

Clete... no conflict in history has ever been won by one side tieing one arm behind their back because their opponent only had one arm.

Vietnam was a perfect contemporary example for why "Measured response" is the absolute worst way to wage a war...

[paraclete]

Measured only in the sense of finding a way to strike only your enemy, don't tell me a sophisticated military mechine can't find a way to do that. No a blunt instrument is simpler, if Hamas uses human shields they are guilty by association, that is a bad response to what is similar to a hostage situation.

We cannot use the rationale of WWII here, that was two forces of equal strength, and what really made the difference was air power. I think the air power of the Israeli is well used but artillery is a blunt instrument. Look we know the problem will exist as long as Gaza exists, it is an enclave and no way there can be free passage through Israel to the west bank, a two state solution is nonsense. When you look at the destruction in Gaza ask yourself were there really that many rocket launchers? If so then the Israeli stopped too soon

[smoothy]

Gaza should be destroyed because Most of the people in Gaza supports Hamas... they voted them in. THey all share the responsibility for their actions now too.

I have ZERO sympathy for any of them.

Most people learn as kids...don't pick a fight you don't have big enough balls to win, and if you do...don't cry when you get your butt kicked.

[talaniman]

You hit on something Clete, how can the Israelis win by bombing people, and buildings AFTER they have launched a rocket and moved them? They haven't destroyed not one rocket launcher yet have they? They haven't even stopped the rockets from coming into the hands of Hamas either.

But I suppose that's the best they can do and makes them feel better even if it accomplishes NOTHING.

[smoothy]

Tal... you can't launch or hide more rockets in a pile of rubble.

If your neighbor was shooting at your house every day....would you sit there and let them? I doubt it.

[talaniman]

I would be shooting the shooters, not the whole neighborhood.