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nasar · Mar 22, 2007, 02:54 AM

IS christianity can influence politics in a HEALTHY WAY- POPE BENEDICT is also a ruler- what you think.

atw4w2c · Apr 11, 2007, 07:49 PM

Christianity should stay out of politics. Politics is a dirty place for Christ's message to be proclaimed. There is a differece, which must be considered and understood, from living as a Christian and wearing it on your sleeve. Evangelism, unfortunately, has taken a bad rap from people who act better than others because they happen to believe.

This nation was made to let people have free will. I am a proud and faithful Lutheran. I live it. I hope others see it. I hope others feel empowered by it. Its not speedy and is not outwardly rewarding, but it is what is right.

True Christians should feel disgusted by these prosyletizing fools who go out "proclaiming the word" but then don't live it themselves. Its not an easy thing to do, but its worth trying at least.

Fr_Chuck · Apr 11, 2007, 08:43 PM

Christianity is a way of life, and a Christian person in office is still a Christian, And of course Christians has as much right as a gun owner or a pot smoker or a tobacca grower to have a lobby group to be sure their rights are protected.

And Christianity in the US has always influenced political issues, not controlled but had an effect since the US was formed. It has only been more recently that people have tried to remove Christianity from the government.

atw4w2c · Apr 12, 2007, 04:17 AM

There have been two glorious hoaxes over the course of time. The first was, as the Roman writer Horace said (Ill translate!) It is sweet and proper to die for ones country. (that batte can be saved for another day) The other is the idea that a "Christian" nation is the right thing. Christianity was founded as a sect of believers, not a hierarchical set of dogmas. Most of these dogmas were created to coincide with pagan holidays and to help the HRE and other purely political states to gain power and keep it.

It is unfortunate that people think that America was founded as a Christian nation and has only recently begun to lose out in the free market. Many of the principal founders were Deists for their entire lives (Jefferson and Washington found Protestantism towards the end). It believe there was only one Catholic. If they had wanted the state to be Christian, they would have said so. But they had no need to create a Christian nation because all of Europe was practically a Christian Nation. (And only God himself knows how many people died in the name of Christ for no reason but to keep some man named Hapsburg or Medici or whomever in power)

To compare Christians to gun toters and the tobacco lobby is plain wrong. The NRA is a group of people who believe they have the right to kill people, and to have weapons that could obliterate dozens in seconds (surely not to be used for hunting I imagine). The tobacco companies have a product that has been scientifically proven to do harm not only to the smoker but to all those around him.

Christians are a community of believers. They believe in there beliefs and they welcome others to come and join them. I welcome response

Capuchin · Apr 12, 2007, 04:20 AM

Sorry what, are you saying that Christian beliefs are the only ones that are right? It sounds that way to me. You're saying NRA and the Tobacco lobby are not a community of believers? They are not welcome to their beliefs?

atw4w2c · Apr 12, 2007, 03:24 PM

It is a gift to be able to say something without offending anyone. I know of few people who have this gift. Those who do not offend anyone when speaking about contentious issues, probably aren't saying anything productive at all.

You have made some points that I see, yet, we must, for the sake of religion itself, separate the NRA and organizations like it to religion.

I'm not sure where I am going with this, but I feel that the Christian movement as a whole needs to re-evaluate their ways on the earth, for they are disgracing the holiness of their Savior and ruining the reputation of a bulwark for peace and love in the process.

nasar · Apr 13, 2007, 02:05 AM

My intention not to a direct impose of a religion in its fullform, but some values , goodness, honesty, kindness, selfless approach- these are the qualities influence by a certain group of people and that group came in power - combination with democracy this is possible on my view. Bad politicians is a problem worldwide. Resolving peoples problems like poverty and unemployment, working for world peace and environment protection, these are religion more than politics- because GOD LOVING THESE THINGS. I know a christian priest leading a farmers union successfully in south india to prevent farmers suicide. Under his guidance these group engaging in running imaginable projects for farmers self recovery.

Capuchin · Apr 13, 2007, 02:09 AM

Atw, I believe you are missing my point. I am not offended, neither am I christian, a gun owner or a smoker. I see absolutely no difference between those 3 organisations when it comes to politics and their rights. You are saying there is a difference, that christians should have rights where NRA and tobacco lobby do not. This seems incredibly narrow minded to me, they are groups of people with a set of beliefs, why should they be separated from religion?

atw4w2c · Apr 13, 2007, 03:18 PM

I guess I would have to ask what "rights" you mean. Religious beliefs, right or wrong, are sancrosanct to the masses nonetheless. I don't mind to infringe on any perceived "rights" of anyone, unless they happen to be dangerous and immoral to the said masses. Christianity is not about government or rights, but about a divine covenant with God and his Son. Over the years (thousands of years) it has turned away from its true message. It's a shame. It can still be saved.

TheSavage · Apr 13, 2007, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by nasar

My intention not to a direct impose of a religion in its fullform, but some values , goodness, honesty, kindness, selfless approach- these are the qualities influence by a certain group of people and that group came in power - combination with democracy this is possible on my view. Bad politicians is a problem worldwide. Resolving peoples problems like poverty and unemployment, working for world peace and environment protection, these are religion more than politics- because GOD LOVING THESE THINGS. I know a christian priest leading a farmers union successfully in south india to prevent farmers suicide. Under his guidance these group engaging in running imaginable projects for farmers self recovery.

What your saying here is that because I am a non -believer I have on values/am not honest/ unkind /etc.

Well I will be kind enough to forgive your ignorance. -:D - Savage

BlakeCory · Apr 13, 2007, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by TheSavage

What your saying here is that because I am a non -believer I have on values/am not honest/ unkind /etc.?

Well I will be kind enough to forgive your ignorance. -:D - Savage

If I could be allowed the opportunity to interject. (please)

It isn't a dispute over non-believers being bad and Christians being good. Everyone knows a bad christian and everyone knows a bad non-believer.

The important distinction is that people, everyone, is bad and God is good. Some people aren't as bad as others (of course) and some (like myself) are just bad on the inside so people would easily label me as a good guy. But the truth is I'm a selfish person, just like everyone else, to their own degree.

This is why parents have to teach kids to behave (some more than others of course) and why there are police and laws and politics. We are just born thinking the world revolves around ourselves and we have to find something outside ourselves to fix that.

Honestly... **whispers** I don't like Christians as a whole. I wish there was someway for me to believe the same things but call myself something better and that's because I'm selfish and prideful and want to be cool.

We are all bad people, some of us believe there is a God who loves us anyways. Because of that we try to be like Him, walk like Him and talk like Him. But we suck at it, every time I try to walk I fall right over. And He loves me just for trying. (Like a parent and a baby)

TheSavage · Apr 13, 2007, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by BlakeCory

If I could be allowed the opportunity to interject. (please)

It isn't a dispute over non-believers being bad and Christians being good. Everyone knows a bad christian and everyone knows a bad non-believer.

The important distinction is that people, everyone, is bad and God is good.

Sorry I will have to point out that according to the Bible -- God has done/ordered done many things that do not pass my moral smells good test. Even Jesus approved slavery. -- Savage

BlakeCory · Apr 13, 2007, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by TheSavage

Sorry I will have to point out that according to the Bible -- God has done/ordered done many things that do not pass my moral smells good test. Even Jesus approved slavery. -- Savage

There are so many things that I don't understand. As I said I believe that we are born with a bent ruler, meaning we have a hard time judging right from wrong. I'm not saying slavery is good, it's evil and selfish. But since we are born bad, wouldn't our opinion of good be bad as well? Also, who am I to judge God? I don't tell a man what to do in his own house, I also don't tell God what to do in His own universe.

I like you Savage, you're a smart/ funny guy.

TheSavage · Apr 13, 2007, 04:25 PM

I am sorry you have a hard time judging right from wrong. I do not have that handicap thus need no God or Gods laws to tell me what is moral and right.
For this reason I wish you to kept your Gods laws to yourselves and out of my Government. -- Savage

Wangdoodle · Apr 13, 2007, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by TheSavage

I am sorry you have a hard time judging right from wrong. I do not have that handicap thus need no God or Gods laws to tell me what is moral and right.
For this reason I wish you to kept your Gods laws to yourselves and out of my Government. -- Savage

So, are you saying that religious minded people should have no say in politics, or we should not vote, or we should not be represented? Seems a bit extreme.

BlakeCory · Apr 13, 2007, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by TheSavage

I am sorry you have a hard time judging right from wrong. I do not have that handicap thus need no God or Gods laws to tell me what is moral and right.
For this reason I wish you to kept your Gods laws to yourselves and out of my Government. -- Savage

It's everyone's government...

If there were people with no moral handicap than a dictatorship would work out perfectly, then it could be your government. :)

TheSavage · Apr 13, 2007, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Wangdoodle

So, are you saying that religious minded people should have no say in politics, or we should not vote, or we should not be represented? Seems a bit extreme.

No I am not says that at all -- what I am saying is things like / creationism / homophobia/intolerance/ authoritatizum [sp]/ is part and parcel of a few of the flavors of your religion [And Islam also], and I sure do not want the falwell`s and robertsons of the world influencing the lives of my loved ones or me.-- Savage

TheSavage · Apr 13, 2007, 05:24 PM

Simple question -- would picking a person to be in our government was made on the basic`s of religion, not ability \-- for example / a inordinate # of people that had graduated from a forth tier Christian law collage where appointed to government jobs over a short period // would that be good for the nation or not?
Bye the way --I enjoy conversations like this and hope its all in good fun on both sides -- Savage

Wangdoodle · Apr 13, 2007, 05:26 PM

Thanks for that up for me.

Wangdoodle · Apr 13, 2007, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by TheSavage

Simple question -- would picking a person to be in our government was made on the basic`s of religion, not ability \-- for example / a inordinate # of people that had graduated from a forth tier Christian law collage where appointed to government jobs over a short period // would that be good for the nation or not?
bye the way --I enjoy conversations like this and hope its all in good fun on both sides -- Savage

I believe it would be good for a nation if it's leaders/legislators fallowed a moral compass. For me, christianity is my moral compass. I do not mean to speak of men and women who claim to be christian, but who would fallow christian principles. If a person is appointed to a government job just because they went to a christian law collage, well, surely we would need more qualifications than that! I would say however: if all things were equal, I personally, would lean towards the one who had a religious education. Again, I look at christian principles not the actions of those who say they are christians. It is those principles which I would say would be good for the nation.