[talaniman]

You're so worried about what they are doing over there, and everywhere, but we can't stop our own loonies from killing our own kids. Naw, but the neocons want more of our kids to go die in a foreign land so they can brag how strong they are.

[speechlesstx]

We're not at war so far, despite what Cheney and McCain want.

OK, so explain how they're foreign policy successes.

[speechlesstx]

You're so worried about what they are doing over there, and everywhere, but we can't stop our own loonies from killing our own kids. Naw, but the neocons want more of our kids to go die in a foreign land so they can brag how strong they are.

We're going to war? That's not what our military is for any more, it's new job is to "create a new world order."

[paraclete]

all it has ever created is disorder

[NeedKarma]

The reference to a “new world order” echoed a similar goal set by President George Bush after the collapse of European communism.

Biden described the new order as a world that seeks human rights, free trade and an end to poverty and oppression.

Terrible, terrible things to do in eyes of the right.

[smoothy]

A "NEW WORLD ORDER" is always totalitarian... or socialist. Neither of them desirable to anyone but the laziest people. Or people with Napoleon complexes

[paraclete]

The new world order is a world ruled by eletes. something similar to what you have already experimented with, it is just a way of them pedling their influence. Benevolent dictatorship is never a good thing. Compared with the eighteenth century we have already seen a new world order and apparently we didn't like it. Personally I don't like the republican idea of a new world order it smacks of empire

[Wondergirl]

OK, so explain how they're foreign policy successes.

My nieces and nephews in the military aren't getting killed?

[paraclete]

these is an easy way to stop people getting killed stop military aventurism

[smoothy]

these is an easy way to stop people getting killed stop military aventurism

Remember that when an emboldened China sets its sites much further south than the Asian Continent, its not if but when since they tend to follow Russia's lead... we really don't want to be involved in any military adventurism.

[paraclete]

By military adventurism I mean Iraq and Libya, Granada and Panama, meeting treaty obligations is not military adventurism, that is what the military is for. I think you need to be much more worried about what your response will be when China, who possesses a large land army, decides they want mineral rich Siberia. Which side are you going to be on? the nation that supplies your ally Europe with energy or the nation that supplies your own economy with cheap goods. To war against China would cripple your own economy, this is the place you have placed yourself

[tomder55]

glad someone recognizes the potential Chinese Siberian land grab . When that happens there will be a nuclear exchange that will plunge the world into a nuclear winter . Russia does not have the ability ,or the population to defend Siberia any other way.

[paraclete]

they have done fairly well in the past and a couple of tactical nukes is no biggy in Siberia they have had bigger blasts, you have avoided the question which side will you be on?

[tomder55]

China is the bigger long term threat .

[talaniman]

When is this Chinese land grab supposed to start? Is this before Iran blows up Israel? If China gets nuked, who does Australia sell dirt too? Whose side will Europe be on?

[tomder55]

China would just be using the Putin doctrine . Why do you think the Chinese have been giving support to the Russians for their land grab ? The precedent is set .

There are many ethnic Han Chinese in Siberia. All they need to do is have a bogus referendum to have China annex .There are many Russian women marry Chinese men because..1. The Chinese have been killing off their baby girls leaving nothing for the men but to look elsewhere for brides and 2. Chinese men don't drink and abuse their women as much as Russians . Besides ;Lebensraum.China has a lot of people ..the Russians have a declining population (except perhaps invading Muslims ). Think of it as their manifest destiny .
As far as impotent Europe is concerned ;they'll go along with whoever wins. What choice do they have ?

Anyway ,the possibility is outlined in the Harvard Int. Review.
Will China Colonize and Incorporate Siberia? | Harvard International Review

[paraclete]

so Tom you fail to reognise your economy is interwined with China, you would criticise us but our mineral exports only comprise 10% of GDP, I'm sure WA would be devastaged for a while or it might take some of the pressure off and give them time for more sustainable development after all fly in fly out is no way to live. You think it is a big thing but I have a view that inevietably Europe, America and China have to look to their own markets and satisfying their own demand, this idea that we can have the materials and the produce of the Earth circling the globe is nonsense

[talaniman]

Its already happening Clete, get with the program. Air and sea.

[paraclete]

what is already happening? I know what we are doing, I'm saying it is unsustainable

[talaniman]

this idea that we can have the materials and the produce of the Earth circling the globe is nonsense

Its growing Clete. Even in Australia, what do you live in the woods or the desert or something?