[helenebaskit]

My husband is close friends with a woman he has known for 25 years. They go out to clubs and the theater alone. She often invites him to events and she doesn't include me. I can't stand her. I think she is nosy and asks too many personal questions about me and my relationship with my husband.

Also, I didn't want my husband to give her a key to our house, because I think she comes in here and snoops around when we're out of town. But he did it behind my back because "she's always had a key to the house." This enraged me, but the bottom line is it's not that I don't trust my husband, I don't trust her. She has a "life partner" but she goes out alone with my husband. I've told him I don't find this relationship appropriate and he laughs and tells me I'm being ridiculous, that he's been her friend for 25 years and I need to "get used to it." I have no idea what they talk about, he's just in shock that I think he's being inappropriate. I feel like it's a losing battle, he won't see my side of things.

Should I call her life partner and invite him out for a drink to discuss the situation? I think that would get their attention. I feel like I'm not being taken seriously, and that she's playing me and intentionally trying to make me jealous. I don't know what to do. Any advice is appreciated. (Sorry this is so long!)

p.s. We also have cook club evenings where she and her "life partner" come for dinner. I wasn't here a few weeks ago and she was looking through my medicine bottles on the counter and asking "Why does she take all these pills?" My husband said "you'd have to ask her." I told her to not go through my personal belongings when she's here, because it's RUDE. Well, all hell broke loose and my husband sided with her. She is so nosy, but he doesn't see it or let it bother him. I live here, too. I don't go to her house and root through her pills. Anyway, I've gone out to the movies the last few times they were here, it's to the point where I can't stand to be in the same room with her. But my husband keeps reassuring her they will ALWAYS be friends and that she's always welcome here, and if my pill bottles are out on the counter she is FREE to pick them up. This relationship is so weird to me. I am repulsed.

[smoothy]

I agree with him for only part of it. She's been a friend for 25 years... I have several female friends I've been friends with for literally the last 49 years... not once in that time have we fooled around with each other... except maybe playing doctor when we were in kindergarten. My wife isn't paranoid... and there are a few others I'm very close friends (26 years now) with one of whom eventually introduced me to my now wife... I don't see that one frequently because she's overseas.....but I do visit her we go out to dinner and have a good time reminiscing a few times every year when I'm in that country. Wife knows when I go, she's only a few blocks away with her family at the time.

I do have an issue with handing the house key out for a number of reasons. My family doesn't even have my house key and her (wifes) family isn't even in this country..

[Wondergirl]

Did you know about their close friendship before you were married? How long have you been married?

[DoulaLC]

Hi helenebaskit,

Obviously we only get to hear what has been going on from your point of view. With just that, however, I wouldn't be happy with the situation either. They may be friends, but your relationship should come first, and that includes being respectful of you, your belongings, and your concerns. You haven't asked him to stop being friends with her, you've only expressed concerns about how you feel that their friendship has overstepped boundaries into your marriage and personal life. Going out with an old friend now and then is one thing, but this sounds more frequent. How often do they see each other? Do you and your husband go out together?

She shouldn't have a key to the house, for example, if it was not a joint decision between you and your husband. She shouldn't be picking up your medicine bottles, that is an invasion of privacy and just plain rude, no matter how good of a friend of his she happens to be. You told her not to go through your things, and yet your husband tells her that she can. That is being disrespectful.

How long have you been married? Have things always been this way between them? Did he spend so much time with her prior to your marriage? Is this something that you knew about before you married and perhaps thought it would change afterwards?

[Jake2008]

The first thing I would do, is change the locks on the door. I wouldn't let him in until you were home either. He can wait in his car. He is, after all, an accomplice to his friend's snooping. Make a point. This is your home!

I would insist that he attend counseling to learn how to better understand your very valid concerns. This 'friendship' has gone way toooooooo far. If his friend were male- it still would have gone way too far. Friends need limits. If your husband cannot see that, you both need to address it- and soon.

This friend of his has an agenda. She knows very well what she is doing- at that is, driving a wedge between you and your husband. She has done that. She has placed herself squarely in control because your husband sides with her, against you. She is making a fool of you, and your husband cannot see that, or chooses not to. Either way, somebody has to knock some sense into this man of yours.

Her partner, I would leave out of this. I suspect that he is also controlled by her, and he most likely would not address any of the issues you have, with her. He won't get any further than you have.

You are not crazy, you are not imagining things, you are not being unreasonable, or insecure, or jealous.

Step up, make some demands of your own, don't let yourself be walked all over any more!

[smearcase]

I agree with Jake just about 100%. But I'd have to think about that lock changing some more. It's his home too and I don't know what the reaction might be or what unforseen events could occur.
I overuse the saying I know but it says "what looks right might be wrong, but if it looks wrongs it's gotta be wrong". I don't know how long this has been going on, but it sounds like you have been tolerating it for a while. That doesn't help the situation.
"You are not crazy, you are not imagining things, you are not being unreasonable, or insecure, or jealous." as Jake said, very little to debate about that, in my opinion.

[Fr_Chuck]

I would change the locks and tell husband if he gives her a key again, you will change the locks and he will not have one. And can find somewhere else to live.

As for not inviting you. Invite yourself. go with husband and just do it. God knows that is what almost any other wife would do.

Explain to him that she has crossed boundries.

[helenebaskit]

Thank you for your responses! (I follow up more below) We've been married for five years. Yes, I've known they were friends before we got married, but I had only met her one time. He has several female friends, but this particular one lives a few blocks away from us. I moved to his city, so I don't have a lot of friends here, all of mine live 4,000 miles away.

Hi helenebaskit,

Obviously we only get to hear what has been going on from your point of view. With just that, however, I wouldn't be happy with the situation either. They may be friends, but your relationship should come first, and that includes being respectful of you, your belongings, and your concerns. You haven't asked him to stop being friends with her, you've only expressed concerns about how you feel that their friendship has overstepped boundaries into your marriage and personal life. Going out with an old friend now and then is one thing, but this sounds more frequent. How often do they see each other? Do you and your husband go out together?

She shouldn't have a key to the house, for example, if it was not a joint decision between you and your husband. She shouldn't be picking up your medicine bottles, that is an invasion of privacy and just plain rude, no matter how good of a friend of his she happens to be. You told her not to go through your things, and yet your husband tells her that she can. That is being disrespectful.

How long have you been married? Have things always been this way between them? Did he spend so much time with her prior to your marriage? Is this something that you knew about before you married and perhaps thought it would change afterwards?

Thank you for all of your responses! He said that snooping through my pills is normal behavior in THIS country. If you leave things out on a counter, people can pick them up. It's customary here. (WTF?) I moved here to the Netherlands to be with him 5.5 years ago. We had dated NYC- London for a few years before we married. Then he moved back to his home country 6 years ago. Oh, believe me, when I found out he had given her the house keys I blew up horribly. He just answered with "She's always had a key to this house." (He bought this place six years ago, while I was still in the US). It's not easy to change the locks here because there is a centralized front door lock, that corresponds to a main gate and two back entrances and a storage facility.

My friends and family in the US think this woman has some kind of crush on my husband. He and I have a fantastic relationship (apart from this with this woman.) She got "committed to her life partner" - she refuses to call him her husband -- a few months after I moved to this country. We used to have cook club EVERY week. I told him that was too much, so he cut it back to once a month. Every other month is at her house. After the snooping incident I sent her an email to not go through my things. She asked if I was joking. --? My husband said "Aw, you hurt her feelings, you have to apologize." Then he told her how I don't understand Dutch culture and I need to get used to how nosy the Dutch are. Do you see how I'm getting absolutely no where with this? I've argued and argued and I feel like I'm beating my head against a door.

Last night he came home after being with her and wondered why I was SO ANGRY. (I didn't want to talk to him about "his evening.") He acts like nothing is wrong when he gets back from going out with her. They usually go about once a month, but lately they've seen each other once a week. Thanks again for your advice, I feel ridiculous writing this online, I should probably find an American therapist here, but they're difficult to find. A Dutch shrink would probably think she is normal. This culture is a bit odd.

My husband and I go out every week together. I had NO idea this woman acted this way before we got married. And yes, she has definitely driven a wedge between us. It's been an ongoing horrible situation for me.

I would change the locks and tell husband if he gives her a key again, you will change the locks and he will not have one. And can find somewhere else to live.

As for not inviting you. Invite yourself. go with husband and just do it. God knows that is what almost any other wife would do.

Explain to him that she has crossed boundries.

They go to ticketed events. Last night it was the Russian Ballet. Before that it was a Dutch play. Before that it was some middle aged dance party. (Gross) Totally not my scene. I really can't stand her and do not want to spend time with her, yet I need to find a way to make this situation manageable.

[DoulaLC]

Okay... that adds a new twist to it. Do you have Dutch friends there that you can discuss this with without having to go into too much detail? Perhaps some of it is a cultural difference in what is considered acceptable behavior. Or it could just be how the two of them have always been and he just doesn't see a problem with it. No doubt it would be a different situation if she were one of his long time guy friends that he hung out with and had over to the house.

Cultural difference or not, it is unfortunate that he won't try to understand your feelings on it. Sort of a take it or leave it scenerio, which does little to foster compromise in a marriage. Compromise is what it is going to take. Both of you will need to come to an agreement of what is okay and what isn't within your relationship. Merging individual styles in a marriage can sometimes be a challenge. Throw in cultural differences as well, and that can make it more challenging.

[helenebaskit]

Yes, that is the problem. They've been this way with each other. I've seen him at her place pick up her mail and read it. I told him I thought that behavior was obnoxious, he saw nothing wrong with it. She sees cards from my family in the US and comments on them - "They're too wordy." Also when I resigned from my job she said "And you want to move??" Things that are personal to me, she gloats on. I don't want her to know anything about me. She gets in constant digs all the time. (This is why I avoid all of their cook clubs now, I'm not sitting through that nonsense) Why should I listen to it? My husband says "if it bothers you so much, then defend yourself." I don't want to have "friendships" where in constant defense mode, sorry.

When I left the US I sold 90% of my personal belongings so I wouldn't have to move them across the Atlantic - it would have been too much fuss and very expensive. No big deal, it's just stuff. Anyway, I gave up all those things, plus I left my friends and family behind to be here with him. Even after that she convinced my husband to use her attorneys to get me to sign a pre-nup two weeks before our wedding, just so I wouldn't go after his property if we divorce. Oh yes, she loves to meddle. Naturally, he thinks I over-react to all of this and that "she is such a sweetheart. She wouldn't hurt a fly."

I told him she has his b@lls in a vice, just like her push-over "life partner." I also told him he has no right to tell her she can nose through my personal things when she's in our house. But he thinks if it's out on a counter it's fair game, so I must pack all of my things away before her visits. It's exhausting and it makes me uncomfortable.

Thank you for your input here, it's greatly appreciated.

p.s. The few Dutch people I've talked to about this situation think she is nosy and intrusive. Some of my husband's other Dutch female friends told me "Zij is moelijk." (She is difficult.) They don't like her either, but for some reason my husband is wrapped around her finger.

[tickle]

I see only one option here, helen, if you can't solve this horrible problem, then leave him and thank your lucky starts you won't have to see her anymore. You are hitting roadblocks, time to stop banging your head.

[Jake2008]

Things would be different, if she was clearly trying hard to be a friend to you. Things would also be different if there was a clear dividing line by way of boundaries, with a little respect from her, toward you, and your marriage.

That she has seemed to replace you as a confidant, advisor (pre-nup), and the preferred person to be with for social outings, is odd. She is trouble, and is putting a wedge in your marriage because she won't let go, and your husband won't let her go.

So what are you to do. It is a nice place for your husband to be, with her as his protector and advocate and advisor, and it is a nice place for her to be, having established that she comes first with your husband, at your expense.

Your husband is as much to blame for putting you in this position, as she is.

She almost reads like the mother in law from hell, that we all know only too well.

If he is unwilling, or unmotivated to realize he is married, and there should be some very clear boundaries with is friend, then I too would stop hitting my head against a brick wall, and get out as tickle said.

It might be time to tell him you are heading back to the states for a time, to think through whether there is hope for this marriage.

His reaction to that, should tell the tale. My guess is, he will, again, think you are being unreasonable.

But, normally I wouldn't advise people to take a break without doing all they could with their partner, before taking such a drastic step. But, I honestly can't see any other way for you to get a clearer perspective, than to leave the situation for a while.

If she 'wins', I don't see your husband as being a great prize to be honest with you.

[helenebaskit]

Hmm, food for thought. Thanks. I've gone on trips around Europe on my own. I just spent a week Rome. This always baffles his friends (She travels ALONE, without YOU?) He gets lonely and misses me terribly. He calls me everyday, twice. I have no doubt about him being crazy in love with me. We spend a lot of time together going to museums and traveling. But he has so much energy, he's constantly go, go, going, he stays active. I consider myself less needy in the relationship / friends department, I'd rather be at home alone with a book, but his friends and family are everything to him.

He keeps coming back with "I don't understand why you don't trust me. We're just friends, she's like a sister."

Perhaps another trip will help give me some distance to think things over. The question I'm asking myself is if he's so in love with me,(and I have no doubt about that), why do I consider her such a threat? It must be "the confidante/ adviser role" that she plays. He's man enough to make his own decisions, but I don't like that fact that she has his ear on things. Again, I have no idea what they talk about when they're out, I have no clue. It could be ballet and books. And he says I need to trust him on that.

Thank you for your perspectives on this, it's helping me sort it out.

[Jake2008]

Sometimes love is just not enough.

If you were to replace her, with booze, it would be easier to get a perspective on this. The two of them are too close, too reliant upon each other, and too dependent on each other.

And in that regard, he won't stop drinking so to speak.

It really isn't about you, vs. her. That she is such a dominant, rude, egotistical type of person (one that you wouldn't be friends with in the first place), makes her more dislikeable, but it does not make her your enemy. She has weaseled herself into your marriage, where your own husband is so influenced by her, that he is asking you to, for example, apologize to her when she is into your personal things.

He should at least realize that your needs and wants are priority. If it means putting some boundaries in place with his friend, he has to man up, and do that. He should also realize, and appreciate, your perspective on things. And most important, no matter what, you, and the marriage comes first. It bothers me that she is so intrusive, yet he either says it's nothing, or he defends her behavior.

That's just not right.

I have been married for 38 years this July, and my marriage didn't work because I allowed other women in the picture. Quite the contrary. Mutual friends of course, couples, of course. But another woman, such as you describe, no way. I would think that most men wouldn't do what your husband does.

What I'm trying to say is, this is a problem within the marriage itself. And from that perspective, is where you should be able to find answers to the problem(s) that are affecting both of you.

I've never met your husband, but, I feel like swatting him with a cast iron frying pan to knock some sense into him.

[talaniman]

Your husband has given you a perfectly fine out here, DEFEND yourself. You don't have to take any of her crap period, and you set the boundaries. Don't take your anger and frustration out on him, direct it at her. You may not change her personality, but you can change what she does around YOU.

I think a fine start would be to TELL her you want your house key back in front of your husband. Yeah I know that starts a conflict, so what, it's a conflict that's been brewing for a while, and needs to be had and opens that door to get your feelings out and serves notice of what you tolerate, and that's an important first step in setting boundaries. How things were in the past no longer applies with her, or your husband and changes will made, and if he cannot address your issues properly, then do it yourself.

I am shocked and amazed you have not raised hell before, and let things drift to this level which is way too passive for me, and unfair to your husband who may or may not need this wake up call. He told you to defend yourself, and that's what I am telling you. This is no different than a family member of his that you don't like. Don't compromise your dignity and self respect for anyone just to not make waves.

Listen to me talk even though my wife's solution was to take all my female friends from me. Now they like her more than me. :( I get along great with her male friends, but they still like her more. :( Really surprised you have said nothing to her partner (or whatever title he holds) but regardless... YOU are the queen of the house, act like it. If the pheasants don't like it... off with their heads!

Not to be harsh, but at some point you have to take responsibility to how others treat you, but to be fair maybe you have never had to deal with such a person. That's cool, but obviously its time to learn. It's a test, a challenge. Meet it!

Beats letting a boob screw with your happiness! For sure you won't be treated like a queen unless you act like one.

[helenebaskit]

@ Jake and Talaniman - this is so wonderful to read. Thank you for your support and insight. Are you therapists in real life?

You're right. I'm going to do the confrontations and defend myself. I didn't go about it the right way the last time and the gates of hell opened up on me. It didn't help that my husband sided with her. That shocked me.

Each time it happened her "Dutch directness" blindsided me. When you're direct back to the Dutch they act all mortified. (it's true, read the ex-pat blogs). I feel like I'm constantly at a distinct disadvantage being the outsider /foreigner here. You see, they speak Dutch throughout the entire meal, so I tend to zone them out (plus she bores me) so doing their translations in my head is exhausting. But when it's time for her to give a dig she whips out her English for me, and her English is terrible.

Possible scenario: When I do confront her it's very likely she may not understand my English. Then my husband will sit there and crap his pants at having to translate my "confrontation." I'm not sure how this will pan out. I'll think of something though. I don't think he likes having to explain what I'm saying to her if he's not in agreement, that's when it gets extremely awkward.

As for the statement, this issue goes deeper into the marriage than just this woman's interference, I completely agree. His first wife didn't like any of his Dutch friends either, and she was very confrontational with ALL of them. (a-ha!) I get along with about 50%. Like I said, he's a loyal friend to all of them, he's been their friends for 30 + years. He tells me that he's cut back on his social calendar for me and that I should be happy about it. (He used to go out to plays, concerts 5 nights a week) and have one date night with me in the beginning of the marriage. I put my foot down to that. So now he only goes out 3 x per week, with Wednesday evening the visit to his elderly parents.

I feel nuts just writing all of that. I really miss living in an English speaking culture. I'm a fish out of water here. People don't understand me, and I don't understand them. It's really painful. We're moving back to the UK in a few years though (that is the plan).

Thank you again, I appreciate your time and insight here.

[talaniman]

You have been in a foreign land for 4/5 years and can't speak the language? That almost unthinkable, and adds GREATLY to the frustration. Forget my advice, learn to speak and be understood without a translator.

You go all over Europe alone? Bet you know more than English, why not Dutch?

[smoothy]

Speaking as someone who lived in a non-english speaking country for 6 years... you should have learned enough of the local language to be at the conversational level by at least the first year... and no later than the second year, Not doing it after 4-5 years is sheer laziness. I can say that because I've seen others that still had trouble ordering a meal off a menu after 4-5 years, much less anything else, they were most of the other people I worked with.

I did it in a year... WITHOUT any classes... and I haven't carried a dictionary since the end of the first year. AND I spent 8 hours a day surrounded by people that spoke nothng but english, I was only around the natives after work in the evening.

YOU have to take the initiative... if you actually understood what everyone was saying... you might find its little more than normal mundane smalltalk . And would be a lot less suspicious of everything and everyone.

Not speaking the language of everyone around you is going to focus attention on everything that bothers you and magnify it.

Again...speaking from experience....that first year was hell....until I learned the language and everything started looking better than it did......except the company I worked for....they were still the scum of the earth, and remain so well over 20 years later.... everything else got better. Good enough I have property there, several vehicles there and I spend a month there every year.

Basically....make the effort to learn the language, and your perspective is likely to change on a lot of things...and you will see them in a new light. Some things might not change...but you can bank on a lot of other things changing.

[odinn7]

I'm going to put something out here that will likely be unpopular but anyway....

I have NEVER seen anyone act like your husband does towards someone else except in cases where they were more involved than "friends". He takes her side, listens to everything she says, won't tell her to back down, goes out with her without bringing you along or even inviting you, and why does she even need a house key? What is that for? Yeah...I think there is more going on here than you believe. Sure, you say he's madly in love with you but really, if you're madly in love with someone, you don't treat them this way or allow them to be treated this way by "friends". He may love you but I would bet everything I own that he loves her as well...and more than just as a "sister".

[talaniman]

Smoothy is dead on the money. How can you be engage when you cannot understand what others are saying and zone out? Forget a trip, take a class so you can properly cuss this woman out in her own language.