[tomder55]

There is no man made drought,

yes there is ;they refuse to channel available water to agricultural sectors of the state because they are afraid of the negative impact to a bait fish. The failed crops are a direct result of a decision to deny the farms irrigation water . So when Chipolte makes a claim that they can't offer guacamole ,they should at least be honest about the cause.

[paraclete]

irrigation is the very form of agribusiness which should be opposed it is artificial and alters the ground water regime so returning to the way things were is not creating drought, look at what irrigation did to the Ariel Sea it actually created an arid area

[tomder55]

irrigation turns arid lands fertile and feeds people. Oh yeah that's right ...you are a Malthusian and think the human race should be culled.

[talaniman]

I bet the fishing industry would take issue with you destroying their bait fish, or changing the eco system for farmers.

[paraclete]

...you are a Malthusian and think the human race should be culled.

No Tom not every idea of corporates is a great idea and irrigation schemes have been proven to be a problem and destructive of important river systems. Daming rivers creates problems look at what was created when Hoover dam was created, it allowed a city to flourish where no city could exist and for what purpose, agriculture? no, heddonism and greed. You know I abhour the worst aspects of your culture Tom and many of your schemes wreck the environment. I see people like you who stand in the way of progress by clinging to destructive ways for profit.

How much of the environment of the planet is being destroyed so Las vegas can exist? Just one example of wrong thinking

[cdad]

If it wasnt for northern California southern California wouldnt exist. The whole basis of the water system (the California auqafur) was built solely to provide needed water to southern California. If it werent there that whole region would dry up to a desert.

[paraclete]

You mean return to what it was before. Irrigation schemes have limited life, times change, needs change and the time has come to be more selective about what we do with water and not create systems that are unsustainable. History is littered with civilisations who flourised with such schemes, developed beyond what the resources could sustain and died

[tomder55]

Agriculture is still the main industry of the state. There is NOTHING wrong with irrigation. The people of California turned desert into oasis ,and it's only that which enables Chipolte to get the avocados they need for their guacamole . There is an abundance of water in Northern California to irrigate the farms AND preserve the smelt . Geeze ;I should take this attitude ... NYC ,you are no longer entitled to our upstate water supply ... Die !!!!!

[talaniman]

Pay a northern farmer to grow all the avocados Chipolte needs.

[paraclete]

exactly, grow the plant where the water exists or import the fruit and help out a third world economy. The plant belongs in a different ecosystem, just because an industry has conveniently established itsself doesn't mean it must be supported, they took the risk

[tomder55]

Avocados do well in the mild-winter areas of California, Florida and Hawaii. They don't do well in the Sierra Madres and other mountain ranges where the source water originates. Like I said ,with your thinking applied ,there would be no water source for LA ,NYC ,and other major cities in the nation.....and of course you love the fact that food would have to be imported instead of home grown. Oh wait ...I see . If water is being diverted hundreds of miles to supply cities dominated by progressives it's ok. But screw those Republican farmers and ranchers. We'll show them ! Turn the farms that feed the nation into desert and use the lamest of environmental excuses as justification.....then blame it on global warming . So transparently pathetic !

[paraclete]

So transparently pathetic !

what is so transparently pathetic is that you think any excuse justifies your argument. Avacados are not native to your nation and prosper in high rainfall areas what is wrong with importing them and sticking to products better suited to your climate. Problem is there are vast stretches of your nation, and mine, unsuited to cropping without irrigation. So be it, you have a vast river system where irrigation can be carried out profitably and cities with large populations provided with water, not every square inch of your land needs to be under use

[tomder55]

what is so transparently pathetic is that you think any excuse justifies your argument. Avacados are not native to your nation and prosper in high rainfall areas what is wrong with importing them and sticking to products better suited to your climate. Problem is there are vast stretches of your nation, and mine, unsuited to cropping without irrigation. So be it, you have a vast river system where irrigation can be carried out profitably and cities with large populations provided with water, not every square inch of your land needs to be under use

lol ;most of our land is unused. A third of the land mass is owned by the Federal Government ( 650 million acres ); a travesty in it's own right . Before politics came into play ,the land produced abundance and there was still enough water to preserve the bait fish.
What would you have humans do ? Devolve and go back to being hunter gatherers ? Agriculture civilized humans ,and early on humans learned to divert water to places where it could be exploited for productive use.
The areas of our country that are not suited for agriculture are not utilized as such . But areas like the San Joaquin Valley ;with the help of irrigation ,is some of the most productive farmland on earth.

[talaniman]

Then let Chipolte pay for the irrigation. It's a simple concept, those who profit can pay. Same with a road, or bridge.

[tomder55]

You don't think the whole state of California profits from it's most important industry ?

[talaniman]

Then let them pay for their own irrigation. If the south needs water they can negotiate with the north.

[cdad]

Tal, the irrigation was already in place. It is not a matter of making something new its a matter of allowing its existing use. The fact that all the fish are going to die anyway if they make their way down the line doesnt appear to be a problem. Also it seems only to affect the farmers and not southern California as a whole.

[talaniman]

The bait fish attracting the catch fish for the fishing industry was my understanding as the overriding interest of the farmers and the diverting of water resources. If there are additional facts please fill those blanks in my understanding, and if indeed they have a system in place what's the greater need? Is there a way to serve them both?

[tomder55]

and if indeed they have

a system in place what's the greater need? Is there a way to serve them both?

indeed the system was in place long before the US Fish and Wildlife Service wackos and an activist judge got involved. The fact is that there is no study linking a lower smelt population to the pumping needed to irrigate the Central Valley . It's NOT that the water isn't there . It already runs ;often through the farms . Farmers are being denied access to the water .
One other point ,if the Central Valley was allowed to be restored to it's natural state ,it would be more swampy than desert . It's the population centers like LA that depends on diverting water supplies for potable water .

[paraclete]

ah the curse of civilisation