[excon]

Hello again, Cats:

So you would deceive them. That's expected. Most Lefty Bigots are really really good at lying.

Are you telling me that by NOT advertising that I'd been in prison is DECEPTION????

You're a fuking idiot.

excon

[talaniman]

Doesn't matter about the other stuff its just treating people the way YOU want to be treated, left, right, bigot or whatever, doesn't matter. Why is that so hard for some Christians in America to understand? You want the people to understand where you are coming from don't you?

Share the love not the hate. Love the sinner even if you hate the sin. Or do you guys think you're better than gay guys? That's it isn't it?

[Catsmine]

Why is that so hard for some Christians in America to understand?

Not being Christian, I have to turn that question around. Why does a group that claims to be seeking equal treatment demand special privileges? I don't refer to just Gays: Affirmative action for people of African descent, Taxpayer funded abortions for college student Congressional candidates, bypassing the Citizenship Naturalization process for illegal immigrants, and printed forms in half a dozen languages but excluding other languages for people that refuse to use the most common.

[tomder55]

PS

> (edited) In terms of toms hope and dream that we go back to a world where one was FREE to associate with whom one chose, it resulted ME being discriminated against. I didn't LIKE it. More than likely, YOU wingers, are WHITE, and haven't ever felt the pain of somebody NOT liking you because of who you are...

well you can make laws all you want and that won't do a damn thing to change people's hearts. Title II was government changing government enforced segregation .Segregation, was enforced by law, which meant that those who wanted to associate or integrate could not do so. What you are talking about is forcing associations ,and that is just as repressive as the former. Freedom of associations is an implied right in the 1st Amendment . But it doesn't surprise me that the left is big on compromising a variety of 1st amendment rights.

[talaniman]

If there could be one rule and one policy that would be great, but the standard has 50 components and some work better than others. Some are more equal than others, and some have more loopholes than others. Even the applications are different in 50 states. In the case of the current OP, the ones with power make rules to exclude the few, on the basis they can. So under what circumstances can the few be included in the big picture?

For sure picking your customers in a public setting is the same discrimination we have seen with many groups through out history but many have fallen by the wayside as wrong. Its simple cause and effect really and I argue that there would be no need for any affirmative action if there were NO discrimination. But we know there is, even without the winks and nods and religious beliefs.

You don't have to turn the question around because you are not a Christian. They too can be as wrong as anyone. It's their right. But like most works in progress, as a country we still have to keep working at forming a more perfect union. Religious beliefs not withstanding.

Civil rights has been an issue since the founders said only land holding white men counted as men. Now the gay people have to go through the same crap all other groups have been through. Wonder what group is next, and where it ends?

[Wondergirl]

Not being Christian, I have to turn that question around. Why does a group that claims to be seeking equal treatment demand special privileges?

I'm a Christian and agree with you -- equal treatment, but no special privileges. I've worked my butt off for what I have, and so should anyone else. No handouts, or the value of the thing and one's self reliance get lost.

[talaniman]

I agree but working hard and going nowhere may not be a thing you can control. Qualified can be a very subjective thing to those that do have control of opportunity. Or those with the power to create obstacles and distraction from ones own goals.

Arizona is a good example of creating obstacles for a group of it's constituents. Others are less obvious, or blatant, but nonetheless there. You can't ignore it sometimes doesn't matter how hard YOU worked. Or if it happens to other groups besides the one you belong too. To be fair, I don't think as many Christian will discriminate but its obvious cover for those that will. They deserve no religious cover in my opinion, but a stern lecture in practice what you preach is more appropriate.

It's absurd to think hate and its cousin discrimination no longer exists, but hiding behind religious belief in the name of a just god is dishonest. I see no difference between those so called Christians and the Ayatollahs they hate so much. Like a klansman with no hood who gets elected to make laws. Arizona has those too.

[paraclete]

Hello again, Steve:

Look. I sympathize with your religious beliefs... But, when you practice them OUTSIDE of the church, you open yourself up to the discussion about WHO'S beliefs are we gonna make superior over others.. You think YOUR beliefs should be supreme. But, according to our beloved 1st Amendment, MY beliefs are equal to yours, even if I just formed a church. The 1st Amendment says NOTHING about older religions versus newer ones.

Who are you to tell ME that MY religious beliefs CAN'T be centered around a HATRED for cops??

Ex the premise that religious beliefs should be confined to inside the walls of a building is rediculous. The church is a group of people not a building and that group transends the physical boundries you try to impose on it. A religious belief such as you suggest had better be practiced in secret because anything more than that is illegal on so many levels, so yes society has spoken and said such "religious" belief is unacceptable

[talaniman]

So you are against Arizona passing a law that says its okay to discriminate against gay people Clete?

[Alty]

I didn't read all the posts, just too much fighting back and forth for my taste.

Here's my opinion on the original question.

Yes, as a business owner you can refuse service to anyone you want. Voicing why you're refusing service isn't smart. Refusing service because of your beliefs, isn't smart. Are you in business to spout your beliefs, or to make money?

So go ahead, start refusing service because you hate cops, or you hate gays, or you hate blacks, or you hate single mothers... you won't be in business very long if you do that. So why even bother starting a business? Better to stay at home and post online about all the things you hate or discriminate against. At least online you may find a few people that believe what you do.

I'm reminded of my dad. Three things he told me when I got my first job. When you're working you never discuss religion, sex, or politics. Keep your mouth shut, do your job, make money. If you want to discuss the three no no's you don't ever do it at work.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:Will I EVER convince you that discrimination is ANTITHETICAL to the American way? That it's UNCONSTITUTIONAL? That it's MEAN spirited?? That it's the OPPOSITE of freedom??

Nahhhh... Might as well talk about fun stuff.

excon

PS> (edited) In terms of toms hope and dream that we go back to a world where one was FREE to associate with whom one chose, it resulted ME being discriminated against. I didn't LIKE it. More than likely, YOU wingers, are WHITE, and haven't ever felt the pain of somebody NOT liking you because of who you are...

Now, I KNOW you don't understand any of this, and THAT is the major problem we suffer as a country... And, it's getting WORSE.

I'm DONE!

Ok, NO I'm not, because I KNOW you'll bring up how much Christians and white people are discriminated against... If that wasn't so outrageous, it would be funny... But, that's what you believe, isn't it???

I understand fine, are you willing to force the gay guys to host the God hates fags banquet?

[Alty]

I understand fine, are you willing to force the gay guys to host the God hates fags banquet?

This is my point exactly. If the gay guys own their business and are asked by the "God hates fags" to provide services for their banquet, they, as business owners, have the right to say no.

But it's business! You're not in business to stand on a soap box for your beliefs. You're not in business to convert people to your beliefs. You're in business for one reason and one reason only, to make money!

So ya, say no to the banquet if you want to lose money because they don't follow your beliefs. Be prepared to go out of business unless every customer meets your moral standards, your exact beliefs. In fact, don't even bother going into business at all if you can't separate business from your beliefs.

Religion, sex and politics! My dad was a genius. Those three things don't mix if you want to survive in business.

[Wondergirl]

I understand fine, are you willing to force the gay guys to host the God hates fags banquet?

What Alty said.

[paraclete]

do you actually do those things over there always thought you were a bit insensitive under the veneer

[Alty]

do you actually do those things over there always thought you were a bit insensitive under the veneer

Who are you talking to Paraclete?

[paraclete]

those people who advocate holding god hates fags banquets far as I know god doesn't hate anyone but he does hate the consequences of their actions

[smoothy]

I don't think he's too fond of child molesters.

[paraclete]

once agin smoothy same applies but we do know he thinks that it would be better for such people if they had a millstone around their neck and they jumped in the ocean

[speechlesstx]

So they should be able to say no to the "God hates fags banquet" and live their decision. That's all I wanted to know.

[talaniman]

In Florida a gay guy can just shoot 'em if he FEELS threatened by hate speech, and keeps the non refundable deposit.