[paraclete]

The true fact that no one was ever denied healthcare is true.

The question isn't whether a person is denied health care, but whether they have the ability to access it.

It would appear that a number of people have been denied care by an insurer for various reasons so this "true fact" you speak of may be true and therefore a fact, or false which is the more likely scenario.

[Tuttyd]

More of your logic, because we were getting hosed before we should just shut the hell up and enjoy getting hosed even worse?

The reason you are getting "hosed worse" is because you are paying the price for historical health inequality. It makes little difference as to who provides the health care. Historically, this has predominately been the private health care system and this system is fine so long as is capable of addressing the problem of equity. But is hasn't.

In other words, the system is too inflexible to monitor and address the problem of inequality. Inequality in terms of health over time means that it becomes increasingly difficult for more and more sections of society to access health care that is satisfactory. A typical example, would be Tom's scenario whereby young people need make a choice between health care and lifestyle.

You are being forced to undergo a revolution in health care as a direct result of the historical inability to address the ongoing problem of equity because of the problem of the increasing problem of inequality.

[cdad]

The question isn't whether a person is denied health care, but whether they have the ability to access it.

It would appear that a number of people have been denied care by an insurer for various reasons so this "true fact" you speak of may be true and therefore a fact, or false which is the more likely scenario.

It is not false at all. What I had said is that some were denied insurance through the private system and then went to the government sponsored system for their healthcare insurance (a form of medicare at the State level).

[paraclete]

It is not false at all. What I had said is that some were denied insurance through the private system and then went to the government sponsored system for their healthcare insurance (a form of medicare at the State level).

I took your meaning to be different, you are saying that everyone can access a doctor and a hospital and the cost will be met. I don't think that is a fact otherwise there would be no need for the ACA. as far as I am aware the problem was/is that people could not meet their health care costs, either because coverage was denied by insurers, or because they lacked the financial ability to have insurance and could not meet the costs

[speechlesstx]

Here is what it is. The true fact that no one was ever denied healthcare is true. And for those seeking insurance with pre existing they did have a place to go to through the states they lived in that offered expanded form of medicaid. Now with Obamacare they are taking those that have been on medicaid rolls and push them into private insurance. The money that they were spending on medicaid will go to suppliment premiums because they are going through the roof. But there is a cut off to getting a supplement. So while the new law purports to make things cheaper they really arent when you add the supplement. Also with Obamacare they are creating a brand new dependent class of people to scare when it comes election time. Its all down to simple politics and money. And the poorest of the poor are going to be hit the hardest.

Yup.

[talaniman]

Your facts are in error and high risk pool insurance is expensive. Don't be a laid off worker and trying to afford cobra, or a state run insurance in a red state, that hasn't expanded Medicaid. And the dirty little secret is that most state insurances are subsidized by the federal government any way. But Nikki Haley, and Rick Perry will never tell you that but just look it up for yourself.

I dare you.

[cdad]

Your facts are in error and high risk pool insurance is expensive. Don't be a laid off worker and trying to afford cobra, or a state run insurance in a red state, that hasn't expanded Medicaid. And the dirty little secret is that most state insurances are subsidized by the federal government any way. But Nikki Haley, and Rick Perry will never tell you that but just look it up for yourself.

I dare you.

Ok, here you go. One Red State as requested.

TennCare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TennCare


Also when I made my post I did credit the government aide that went with the State program as a expanded form of medicare.

From the site:

In Tennessee, the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan (PCIP) is run by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The PCIP is designed to make insurance available to those without insurance who have or have had a medical condition, disability or illness. Members of the PCIP must pay monthly premiums. To qualify for coverage you must:
•Be a citizen or national of the United States or lawfully present in the United States.
•Have been uninsured for at least the last six months before applying.
•Have a pre-existing condition or have been denied coverage because of a health condition.

[paraclete]

Ok, here you go. One Red State as requested.

TennCare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TennCare


Also when I made my post I did credit the government aide that went with the State program as a expanded form of medicare.

From the site:

In Tennessee, the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan (PCIP) is run by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The PCIP is designed to make insurance available to those without insurance who have or have had a medical condition, disability or illness. Members of the PCIP must pay monthly premiums. To qualify for coverage you must:
•Be a citizen or national of the United States or lawfully present in the United States.
•Have been uninsured for at least the last six months before applying.
•Have a pre-existing condition or have been denied coverage because of a health condition.

yes you see the condition that excludes, pay a monthly premium, the main disqualification from health insurance appears to be the inability to pay among the poor

[speechlesstx]

yes you see the condition that excludes, pay a monthly premium, the main disqualification from health insurance appears to be the inability to pay among the poor

And that's what Medicaid is for. Could we not have improved on that instead of hosing 85 percent of the country who liked their health care and weren't imposing on others?

[talaniman]

Expansion of Medicare is the improvement to cover more people is the improvements and saves the state billions. Especially in a red state like Texas where a million people have no health insurance.

Unfortunately Red States governors don't want the funds that come with the expansion even though they currently have severely underfunded Medicaid programs. Less choice, less benefits, and higher costs.

[excon]

Hello again,

The website sunk Obamacare. He did it himself. Why some of you think he'll be given a second chance at it, baffles me.

The end of Obamacare ALSO spells the END of the Democratic party as we know it, the end of universal health care, and the ascendance of Ted Cruz to the presidency.

It's gonna be right wing HEAVEN.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Expansion of Medicare is the improvement to cover more people is the improvements and saves the state billions. Especially in a red state like Texas where a million people have no health insurance.

You mean Medicare for all. We don't want your government run health care, why can you not understand that?

Less choice, less benefits, and higher costs.

Sounds like what we just got stuck with to me.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again,

The website sunk Obamacare. He did it himself. Why some of you think he'll be given a second chance at it, baffles me.

The end of Obamacare ALSO spells the END of the Democratic party as we know it, the end of universal health care, and the ascendance of Ted Cruz to the presidency.

It's gonna be right wing HEAVEN.

excon

The shoddy, incompetent, partisan way it was passed started it. The website disaster compounded it, sticker shock piled on, the habitual lying about it didn't help and when everyone realizes the next sticker shock of higher copays, deductibles and out of pocket and the loss of their doctor that will be all she wrote. But I don't see Cruz as the nominee.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

The shoddy, incompetent, partisan way it was passed started it.

Nahhh. It was a simple website. If IT had worked, Obamacare would have worked. The Democrats are fleeing the sinking ship like a bunch of rats.

Yes, I think the picture of Bush looking out the window upon the devastation Katrina wrought, SUNK his second term. I believe this was Obama's watershed moment, and he got caught looking out the window..

I'm like Cronkite, you know.. Once Obama looses me, he's LOST everybody.

excon

[talaniman]

There is no basis of fact in your post and the "we" you define is in error. You obviously have not explored the 60 plus plans on your own state website. Nor have you read the link I have provided you to how Texas hospitals are pooling to expand there own programs to advantage the federal dollars for Medicaid that the state doesn't want.

[speechlesstx]

OK, show me the numbers that say "we" want government run health care.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

OK, show me the numbers that say "we" want government run health care.

Let's review, shall we?

Bout a year ago we had an election.. It was the LAST time EVERYBODY was counted. One of the candidates said he was gonna repeal Obamacare on his first day.

He LOST, and he lost BIG. "WE" spoke on that day, and "we" spoke LOUDLY!

I dunno WHY you don't think THOSE numbers count.. But, they're the ONLY ones that do..

excon

PS> Look. I gave up the fight. But we didn't lose it because the people didn't want it. They CLEARLY wanted it, your denials notwithstanding. The reason it failed is because of their inability to run a website.

[tomder55]

and the fact that "we " were lied to .

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:
Let's review, shall we?

Bout a year ago we had an election.. It was the LAST time EVERYBODY was counted. One of the candidates said he was gonna repeal Obamacare on his first day.

He LOST, and he lost BIG. "WE" spoke on that day, and "we" spoke LOUDLY!

I dunno WHY you don't think THOSE numbers count.. But, they're the ONLY ones that do..

excon

PS> Look. I gave up the fight. But we didn't lose it because the people didn't want it. They CLEARLY wanted it, your denials notwithstanding. The reason it failed is because of their inability to run a website.

Let's review. Voters did not approve of Obamacare even though they elected him.

I'm not the one in denial.

[talaniman]

Poll: Most Look To A Rosier Future - CBS News

On the matter of health insurance ... Nearly half of all Americans now want the government to provide it for all problems. That's up from just over a quarter in 1979.

Healthcare-NOW! - Another Poll Shows Majority Support for Single-Payer

A New York Times/CBS News poll released last week shows, yet again, that the majority of Americans support national health insurance.

The poll, which compares answers to the same questions from 30 years ago, finds that, “59% [of Americans] say the government should provide national health insurance, including 49% who say such insurance should cover all medical problems.”

Only 32% think that insurance should be left to private enterprise.

The pols reflect what I have been saying. Screw the for profit market based pandering and cut out the middle man.