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J_9 · Oct 10, 2013, 07:29 AM

Well honey, them right wingers are wrong, and I'm a right winger.

smoothy · Oct 10, 2013, 07:51 AM

If you are less than 100% honest on every question... its a felony.

FEDERAL FIREARMS LAWS

d. False Statements - It is a felony violation to knowingly make a false statement or show a false identification to an FFL: § 922 (a)(6), 10 years or § 924 (a)(1)(A), 5 years.

excon · Oct 10, 2013, 07:58 AM

Hello again, smoothy:

If you are less than 100% honest on every question... its a felony.

Glad you came around.

Excon

speechlesstx · Oct 10, 2013, 08:01 AM

Now that we have that settled...

smoothy · Oct 10, 2013, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:
Glad you came around.

excon

Nope... people that know they would be rejected if they were honest usually lie on the form hoping it gets approved. Otherwise why would you even do it? That can land them in jail.

excon · Oct 10, 2013, 08:07 AM

Hello again, Steve:

Now that we have that settled...

Well, it's settled to a degree. Clearly we have a divide in the right wing over it. I DON'T agree that the article I linked you too overstated ANYTHING.. During the last debate THAT argument was brought up TIME and TIME again. In fact, I NEVER heard a right winger say what YOU'RE saying... They said, with NO equivocation, just like smoothy did, if you fill it out, and you're a felon, you BELONG in jail.

Excon

speechlesstx · Oct 10, 2013, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:
Well, it's settled to a degree. Clearly we have a divide in the right wing over it. I DON'T agree that the article I linked you too overstated ANYTHING.. During the last debate THAT argument was brought up TIME and TIME again. In fact, I NEVER heard a right winger say what YOU'RE saying... They said, with NO equivocation, just like smoothy did, if you fill it out, and you're a felon, you BELONG in jail.

excon

Like I said, I never heard that argument. Not once.

odinn7 · Oct 10, 2013, 08:34 AM

I'm in PA and guns are purchased using a PICS check through the state police. It is not against the law to apply for a gun if you are a felon. What is against the law is lying on the form.

A friend of mine is a gun dealer in town. He has turned many people away because the PICS flagged them or flat out denied them for one reason or another. He does not make the call, the state police running their background check tells him yes or no. Only one time has anyone ever been arrested for applying at his shop. A guy came in and applied for a gun, got flagged by the PICS check and within minutes the state police were there to get him as he was leaving. Mark had no idea what they got him for but something during that check notified the police about the guy.

But back on the subject... I don't think it should be illegal for a felon to fill out the form and apply. I do agree with penalties for lying on the form and that goes for everyone, not just felons.

J_9 · Oct 10, 2013, 04:25 PM

just like smoothy did, if you fill it out, and you're a felon, you BELONG in jail.

That's not what Smoothy said. Don't twist his words. He said if they lied on the Form 4473.

cdad · Oct 10, 2013, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, J:

Thanks, but that doesn't answer my question. It's a federal law that I'm asking about.. My question stems from the right wings refusal to expand background checks. They ask, why should we DO that, when we don't prosecute those felons who applied and got turned down...

My question is WHY is simply applying a crime? The law on WHAT exactly constitutes a felony record, IS evolving. In MY particular case, I MAY or MAY not be eligible to own a firearm. My felony's are OLD. My civil rights have been restored, in terms of VOTING. I truly don't KNOW if I'm eligible to own a gun, or not. Filling out an application would BE the way I'd determine whether I was or not.

WHY, would doing THAT, be a crime???? It makes NO sense to me.

excon

Lets me try to explain it to you. When your convicted and you are released it was explained what restrictions you were still under. So your made aware of what rights you have. And what were forfeit due to the crime committed.

Many States have a preauthorization process that you can enter into that can tell you if you can buy a gun or not. There is no crime committed by checking the system. On the other hand when you fill out the form at your local FFL for a firearm you are in fact already half way to possession of a weapon. You are in fact attempting to be checked out for a specific weapon.

Other then how the law applies. It is simaler to buying a car or house that you will pay for over time. You might choose to get preapproval for your loan and go out seeking what you can afford or you might go to a dealership or home sale and write a contract then apply.

If you are denied in the first scenario then you won't even go looking. Where in the 2nd one your test driving or looking over the product of your choice before application.

So as you can see you have already handled the gun in some way and exchanged funds for purchase before making the application vs just asking if you can or not without handleing anything.

Athos · Oct 10, 2013, 04:47 PM

If possession of a gun by a felon is illegal, then it seems reasonable that the attempt to get a gun is also illegal.

mogrann · Oct 10, 2013, 07:52 PM

Interesting question Excon.
I would like to know if it is true that applying is illegal. I have mental health issues and hospitalizations related to it. I have always heard it is illegal for me to have a gun. I wonder if I can be charged with a crime for applying.
If people are saying felons should be charged then so should everyone else with issues that say it is illegal for them to own a gun. Wonder how full our jails would be?
NOTE: I live in Canada I am unsure if you have the same restrictions for people with mental health issues or not in the USA.

speechlesstx · Oct 11, 2013, 03:42 AM

Falsifying your application is illegal, applying is not.

cdad · Oct 11, 2013, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Falsifying your application is illegal, applying is not.

Wrong. It is illegal to apply for a firearm through a FFL if you are a felon and banned from owning such weapon.

talaniman · Oct 11, 2013, 04:55 AM

Hello Ex,

Send your girlfriend into the pawn shop down the street.

Mission accomplished. That's just one of many easy ways to get a gun. How many do you want?

excon · Oct 11, 2013, 05:31 AM

Hello Moderator, J:

That's not what Smoothy said. Don't twist his words.

Can't you READ??

Excon

smoothy · Oct 11, 2013, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello Moderator, J:Can't you READ???

excon

Its obvious you can't.

Give it another try...

Originally Posted by smoothy

Nope....people that know they would be rejected if they were honest usually lie on the form hoping it gets approved. Otherwise why would you even do it? That can land them in jail.

Give false information on that form and you find yourself a guest of the Grey Bar Hotel for a few years and with another Felony conviction.

Originally Posted by smoothy

If you are less than 100% honest on every question.....its a felony.

FEDERAL FIREARMS LAWS

d. False Statements - It is a felony violation to knowingly make a false statement or show a false identification to an FFL: § 922 (a)(6), 10 years or § 924 (a)(1)(A), 5 years.

excon · Oct 11, 2013, 05:34 AM

Hello again,

So, it ISN'T settled then.. Didn't think so.

excon

excon · Oct 11, 2013, 05:53 AM

Hello again, smoothy:

Simple for the very same reason that trying to rob a bank is a crime..

Nuff said. You'll NEVER win a battle of words with me.

Excon

speechlesstx · Oct 11, 2013, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by cdad

Wrong. It is illegal to apply for a firearm through a FFL if you are a felon and banned from owning such weapon.

Well, there you go.