[cdad]

You never know until you try it.

Maybe its just all lies and its working just fine right?

UPDATED: Obamacare Poster Boy Chad Henderson and His Dad Didn't Really Buy Insurance - Reason.com

[talaniman]

That he can shop and weigh his options is the goal since the deadline to actually enroll is December 15th to have coverage January 1st.

To shop you have to have an account, like many of the retail sites online, but I guess some will see the glass half empty no matter what.

[Wondergirl]

Help me here (please). Why the screaming about increased costs because there will be more Medicaid coverage? Wouldn't that eventually become LESS of a drain on taxpayers as more and more uninsured poor (who used to hang out at the ER with Medicaid paying for ALL of the costs) now buy insurance? And yes, there will be Medicaid still working into that (depending on what choices the state made for funding the ACA), but wouldn't it be less than the full coverage it is now?

[talaniman]

Help me here (please). Why the screaming about increased costs because there will be more Medicaid coverage? Wouldn't that eventually become LESS of a drain on taxpayers as more and more uninsured poor (who used to hang out at the ER with Medicaid paying for ALL of the costs) now buy insurance? And yes, there will be Medicaid still working into that (depending on what choices the state made for funding the ACA), but wouldn't it be less than the full coverage it is now?

There you go wasting logic on the party of scream. Before they started hollering years ago, they were against paying for those lazy poor people who go to the emergency room.

[smoothy]

Help me here (please). Why the screaming about increased costs because there will be more Medicaid coverage? Wouldn't that eventually become LESS of a drain on taxpayers as more and more uninsured poor (who used to hang out at the ER with Medicaid paying for ALL of the costs) now buy insurance? And yes, there will be Medicaid still working into that (depending on what choices the state made for funding the ACA), but wouldn't it be less than the full coverage it is now?

Who exactly is going to be paying these HUGE medicaid increases... we already know Obamacare is going to cost more than triple what Obama promised (big surprise there)... and the CBO says it will bankrupt the country.


Oh right, those of us trying to put enough to retire on because SSI won't be there because its been going to people who never worked or paid much into the system... so the have nots expect to take what little we have left off us.

Maybe if they had worked harder and made better choices they would have more themselves.

And I've been paying more in SSI that won't be there to collect than I can set aside to survive on the last 34 years.

[Wondergirl]

Who exactly is going to be paying these HUGE medicaid increases

Why are they going to be huge?

[smoothy]

Why are they going to be huge?

Simply do the math... If you expand coverage then the costs have to expand at least that much.. though usually even more because of greater overhead. You can't double the number of covered people without at least doubling all the costs... if those people are all high cost and high risk... increase the costs by orders of magnitude.

Can't get something for nothing.

[Wondergirl]

Simply do the math.....If you expand coverage then the costs have to expand at least that much

But that's not what that means.

[smoothy]

But that's not what that means.

It does... you can't offer more to more people and NOT have it not cost a lot more. More people equals more payouts... you think all these newly covered people are going to NOT use it?

Unless you make them all pay $20,000 annual deductibles.

[Wondergirl]

It does...you can't offer more to more people and NOT have it not cost a lot more. More people equals more payouts...you think all these newly covered people are going to NOT use it?

Unless you make them all pay $20,000 annual deductibles.

Think of it this way --

NOW: 20 people have no health insurance. They all go to an ER. The cost is $100 (just to keep this simple). All end up getting the $100 charge paid by Medicare = $2000.

WITH ACA: Those 20 people are eligible for and apply for a health care plan from their states' marketplace, and are then covered. 10 of those people are able to pay the premiums out of pocket, but the other 10 are even poorer, can't pay the total premium out of pocket, but are qualified to receive additional assistance, so Medicaid steps in and pays part. Thus, Medicare costs will be a much less total payout for those 20 people.

Now, think of the savings when we consider 40+ million people who could end up in the ER under ACA as opposed to NOW.

[smoothy]

Think of it this way --

NOW: 20 people have no health insurance. They all go to an ER. The cost is $100 (just to keep this simple). All end up getting the $100 charge paid by Medicare = $2000.

WITH ACA: Those 20 people are eligible for and apply for a health care plan from their states' marketplace, and are then covered. 10 of those people are able to pay the premiums out of pocket, but the other 10 are even poorer, can't pay the total premium out of pocket, but are qualified to receive additional assistance, so Medicaid steps in and pays part. Thus, Medicare costs will be a much less total payout for those 20 people.

Now, think of the savings when we consider 40+ million people who could end up in the ER under ACA as opposed to NOW.

Do you actually believe that's how it works?

Ever question WHY the prices are so much higher for everyone and the coverage is so much less than the non-socialized system? J_9 gave us her example.. and the Conservative media has been saying the same thing... you know the ones who haven't been covering for Obama's numerous screw ups all these years.

The people who worked harder to get ahead get screwed to pay for the people who coasted through life... and we do know most of the poor are the people who didn't work hard in school because it wasn't "Cool" to do... thus they never went to college and never got the better jobs... or were happy in their low paying jobs and didn't take the chances or work harder to take on responsibilities to get the better jobs... then start whining about how life isn't fair others earn more than they do. And expect to get the same thing at discounted prices at someone else's expense.

Besides if it was so wonderful... The Senate, The House... the SCOTUS and the White house as well as all the unions would be wanting this as well, and yet none of them want any part of it...

[Wondergirl]

Do you actually believe that's how it works?

Yes. It will need tweaks, but yes.

Have you looked at the most current stats as to how many and who is on welfare and why? And who is getting Medicaid?

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

[J_9]

Here is an interesting read for you all. Written by a retired professor of constitutional law.

Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional.

What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business,and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred,or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.

The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare a direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution, information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide.

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However , that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law. It doesn't stop there though.

The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;

The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution." If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source, the U.S. Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law Instructor

[Wondergirl]

Here is an interesting read for you all. Written by a retired professor of constitutional law.

According to snopes.com, he posted that on his blog in 2009 regarding a version of the bill that never passed Congress.

snopes.com: Michael Connelly on the Constitutionality of Health Care Reform

[J_9]

WG, I am not sure if you are truly unaware of what is going on, or if you are putting on your counselor's hat and trying to play devil's advocate.

This is going to be a drain on the economy as a whole as well as the medical system.

Because of ACA, this week my hospital, a small rural hospital, lost 17 employees. They weren't fired, but had to resign due to new staffing criteria More patients, fewer nurses.

The ER lost 6 alone and there will be an increase in ER traffic as many doctors will not be taking the new required insurance. An ER visit costs a minimum of about $900 vs a $20 doctor visit. However, if the doctors won't take that insurance, the public has no alternative but to use the ER as a clinic.

We now have 7 patients to one nurse on the medical surgical floor. Depending on the acuity of the patients, other patients' needs may be ignored and medications may be missed.

While all of you are quoting media sources, I am walking, talking and breathing this. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I am on the front lines. The media isn't. I am. I'm seeing the changes almost daily.

[Wondergirl]

While all of you are quoting media sources, I am walking, talking and breathing this. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I am on the front lines. The media isn't. I am. I'm seeing the changes almost daily.

Posting an over-four-year-old blog post of incorrect information doesn't help your case.

And why are these staff people being laid off/fired? So far, there's no reason for it.

I talk with both Republicans and Dems in real life, read both pro and con. Tomorrow, I will call two friends, long involved in medicine and heavily involved in patient care, to find out what they think.

[J_9]

No, you are right. It doesn't and I admit I failed to research it prior to posting it. I'm human. I'm not perfect, and I admit that.

These people aren't being laid off, only a few were fired. 63 in my system were fired, 17 people quit.

Why? Because of the new staffing grid. 7 patients to one nurse when it used to be 3 patients to one nurse. They aren't getting their hours, they are disgusted with the neglect that the patients will be getting.

Vanderbilt University hospital let go of approximately 1,000 employees.

And why are these staff people being laid off/fired? So far, there's no reason for it.

There is plenty of reason for it. Hospitals will not be reimbursed for certain procedures unless other procedures are conducted. Thus an increase in costs where the hospital cannot afford to pay employees.

I'll give you another example. Linens. You laugh, but it's part and parcel to patient satisfaction. Beds are now being made with only a bottom sheet, a pillow and pillow case. When I bring a patient from L&D to postpartum, I am expected to bring her blankets with her. Bloody blankets. Any new blankets will now be charged to the patient's account. No sodas, only water. If she labored for 48 hours with nothing but ice chips, I can't give her a meal. Her significant other has to go out to get her something to eat. If they can afford it. Otherwise I take money out of my pocket to feed the starving mother.

My main point is that I am concerned about patient welfare. I am concerned about the care the get, or will not get, according to ACA.

You call your "friends" I'm sure you will disprove me on that too.

[Wondergirl]

These people aren't being laid off, only a few were fired. 63 in my system were fired, 17 people quit.

Why? Because of the new staffing grid. 7 patients to one nurse when it used to be 3 patients to one nurse. They aren't getting their hours, they are disgusted with the neglect that the patients will be getting.

Vanderbilt University hospital let go of approximately 1,000 employees.

The ACA hasn't even taken effect yet. You'd think they would wait to see how the ACA shakes out before they panic and lay off or fire or quit.

You call your "friends" I'm sure you will disprove me on that too.

One is my GP who has been practicing for over 30 years, and the other is my pharmacist who has owned his pharmacy for probably as many years and has an excellent reputation in our community. I do not know either one's political leaning. I can also email my chiropractor who owns his own clinic, but is winding down toward retirement. All three are smart, well-read, and won't pull punches when I ask them what they think.

[J_9]

Yes, but you don't know any nurses going through this. Do you? I'm sure you will pull one out of your sleeve though.

The ACA hasn't taken effect yet? Really? No, the official ACA hasn't taken effect, but the effects are being seen system wide.

I pray for you next time you are a hospital patient.

[Wondergirl]

I'm sure you will pull one out of your sleeve though.

I'll ignore that.

Yes, actually I do know some nurses. One is in Seattle. Will email her tomorrow. Her husband is a member of this site.

My niece Heather who lives in a small town along the Mississippi in western Illinois is an RN. Will contact her too, if you'd accept her report.

I pray for you next time you are a hospital patient.

And that might be real soon. I'll take notes. The hospital I would go to is complaining they don't have enough patients and are trying to drum up business. Maybe I can help.