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cdjordan · Sep 29, 2013, 10:21 AM

I am running a circuit and having some issues.

Circuit Contains:
- 1 Dimmer Switch feeding 6 pot lights
- 2 Plugs

The power is coming from the breaker box to the switch box.
The switch box has lines out to the first outdoor outlet and one light

In the switch box I have performed the following connections:
- all white wires are connected
- all ground wires are connected and connected to the box and the dimmer switch
- the hot black is connected with the black to the plug and one black on the dimmer switch
- the other black on the dimmer switch is connected to the black leading to the pot light

For the first plug I have a GFIC plug because it is outside.

This issue I am having is as follows:
When I have the lights hooked up and the GFIC plug wired bring the hot into it and nothing going out everything works fine. However, when I attached the line to the next plug the GFIC will no longer reset. If I move the GFIC from the first plug to the last plug everything works fine but I then have one outdoor plug unprotected by the GFIC plug.

I have tried 2 separate GFIC plugs to ensure I don't have a faulty plug but I continue to have the same issue.

What am I missing here?

Stratmando · Sep 29, 2013, 10:33 AM

A couple of things:
Newer GFI's will not reset unless Power is present on the LINE side.
GFI's/GFCI's will trip when either the Hot or Neutral draw different current. If you were to touch a Hot(don't), you would cause the Hot to draw more than the neutral and should trip.
Everything on the LOAD side, has to have the hot and neutrals of all loads, (Downstream protected outlets, lights, etc)originate from load side, and you should have no connections between line and neutral(white on LINE will NOT connect to thewhite on the LOAD side.
I would not have the Light(s) on GFI if wiring allows.
A second gfi may be needed if done in Romex.
Draw it out and attach if the above doesn't help.
Good Luck.
Let us know how you did.

cdjordan · Sep 29, 2013, 11:54 AM

Thanks for taking a look at this for me. Attached is a link to a drawing of the circuit layout I current have with issues.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3slz3ziird...I%20wiring.pdf

I understand what you are saying but am pretty sure my only option is to use a second GFI unless once seeing it you have another suggestion.

Thanks!
Derrick

hkstroud · Sep 29, 2013, 01:28 PM

From the way you have described the wiring, it is correct. However there is something wrong, and what ever it is, is not coming through from your descriptions.
Suggest you pull the outlets out boxes and post pictures so we can see the actual wiring.

Stratmando · Sep 30, 2013, 07:35 AM

HK, for whatever reason, can't get Dropbox to work, Can you attach the Image, Thanks

hkstroud · Sep 30, 2013, 11:14 AM

..

Stratmando · Oct 1, 2013, 06:40 AM

Thanks HK, looks like a No Brainer, Maybe more between the Load and 2nd receptacle, or a fault between the 2.
Should be able to use 1 GFI as it appears to be laid out.
Remove wires between Load side of GFI and downstream receptacle and look for resistance between the Hot and ground and neutral and ground. Should be none.

hkstroud · Oct 1, 2013, 01:54 PM

Need to see actual wire connections here. What we are being told is not logical.

cdjordan · Oct 1, 2013, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Need to see actual wire connections here. What we are being told is not logical.

Thanks for the responses. I will take and upload pictured in a couple days. The work is at my parents place and I won't be there until the Friday.

I agree with the comment that this is pretty uncomplicated which is why it has me confused. I must be missing something simple but I can't seem to diagnose what it is. Again, I appreciate the help and will get the pictures posted soon.

cdjordan · Oct 4, 2013, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Need to see actual wire connections here. What we are being told is not logical.

Here are the pictures of the actual connections.

Stratmando · Oct 4, 2013, 11:14 AM

Turn off power. Remove 4 connections from GFI. Turn on power and verify which black and white that have power, Identify/connect. Be sure they are connected to the LINE side. White on Neutral screw and black on hot.
Turn On power and Test GFI.
Turn power back off, or do this while powered down the first time: Test for continuity between the Hot and ground, and neutral and ground, if no resistance, you should be able to power back up and have load side working, If not, turn power back off, Twist the black and white together, go to other end and verify continuity, Likely good.
You're getting close, Keep us updated, Thanks, Good Luck.
Do the above with the Dimmer off or disconnected, If you turn light on and it trips GFI, we can help there too. Sounds like you know what you are doing, I likely included much that you already know.

hkstroud · Oct 5, 2013, 07:58 AM

..

hkstroud · Oct 5, 2013, 08:10 AM

An after thought, rather several.

Why are you using metal boxes and how are they secured in place. They appear rather small. Plastic "old work" boxes would probably make your life easier. Why the tape on the wire nuts. Not necessary when using properly sized wire nuts. I guess it doesn't hurt, but doesn't look professional.

cdjordan · Oct 9, 2013, 06:57 AM

OK, so in the end after testing everything and confirming the hookups were correct, the only way it will work is to use a second GFI plug on the other outdoor outlet.

So, all is well.

Thanks for the suggestions.

hkstroud · Oct 9, 2013, 07:37 AM

So, all is well.

Congratulations glad you got it working. However, have to disagree with

the only way it will work is to use a second GFI plug on the other outdoor outlet.

If you have confirmed that you have the incoming power connected to the line terminals of the first GFI and the out going connected to the protected load terminals and the GFI trips

And

If you can install a second GFI (rewiring the first GFI) and everything works, then you have a fault in the wiring between the GFI's.

To say it another way, when using only one GFI, it is sensing fault in the wiring to the second outlet (which is down stream of the GFI). When using two GFI's, the second GFI is not sensing the fault because it occurs before the GFI (second).

To confirm this logic, rewire using the first GFI only, but do not install the second regular outlet. GFI should trip as it has in the past. Since the only thing after the GFI is the wiring, the fault would have to be in the wiring. If by some chance the GFI does not trip, connect the outlet. If the GFI then trips, the outlet is defective. Something I have never seen but I suppose is possible.

cdjordan · Oct 9, 2013, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Congratulations glad you got it working. However, have to disagree with

If you have confirmed that you have the incoming power connected to the line terminals of the first GFI and the out going connected to the protected load terminals and the GFI trips

And

If you can install a second GFI (rewiring the first GFI) and everything works, then you have a fault in the wiring between the GFI's.

To say it another way, when using only one GFI, it is sensing fault in the wiring to the second outlet (which is down stream of the GFI). When using two GFI's, the second GFI is not sensing the fault because it occurs before the GFI (second).

To confirm this logic, rewire using the first GFI only, but do not install the second regular outlet. GFI should trip as it has in the past. Since the only thing after the GFI is the wiring, the fault would have to be in the wiring. If by some chance the GFI does not trip, connect the outlet. If the GFI then trips, the outlet is defective. Something I have never seen but I suppose is possible.

What are the risks of me leaving it with 2 GFI plugs?

hkstroud · Oct 9, 2013, 10:24 AM

Depends on what the fault in the wiring is. Could be skinned sheathing and insulation while pulling wire, could be staple (if used) penetrated insulation, could be bare spot on wire under cable clamps where cables come into metal box.

How is the wire routed and what did you have to do to get in the wall?

cdjordan · Oct 9, 2013, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Depends on what the fault in the wiring is. Could be skinned sheathing and insulation while pulling wire, could be staple (if used) penetrated insulation, could be bare spot on wire under cable clamps where cables come into metal box.

How is the wire routed and what did you have to do to get in the wall?

The wall was completely open when we ran it so I doubt the issue is with skinned sheathing and insulation. I guess the risk of a staple could be but I was very conscious of that when doing it. The other thing it could petentially be is it was hit with a nail when putting the siding on the outside wall.

hkstroud · Oct 9, 2013, 02:49 PM

hit with a nail when putting the siding on the outside wall

Suggest disconnecting all wires, both ends, then do a continuity check between hot and neutral and hot and ground.

cdjordan · Oct 9, 2013, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Suggest disconnecting all wires, both ends, then do a continuity check between hot and neutral and hot and ground.

The tests I performed were:
1. removed the dimmer and lights from the circuit - still had issue
2. removed all wired from the single GFI plug and at the last plug in the circuit
- twisted the hot and common together, then at the GFI plug end touched the hot coming in for the gfi to the hot going to the last plug, then checked that the current came back through the common - it did
- twisted the hot and ground together, then at the GFI plug end touched the hot coming in for the GFI to the hot going to the last plug, then checked that the current came back through the common - it did

Isn't what I did the equivalent of using a multi-meter to test continuity? If not please explain it to me.