[paraclete]

you know as well as I do that the unions are DESPERATELY petitioning Congress to change the provisions of Obamacare that they are getting burned over .

Unions do what Unions do particularly when the government is sypathetic to their views. This what happens when you allow industry lobbies to write legislation I wonder did the forerunner of the NRA write the second amendment

[tomder55]

did the forerunner of the NRA write the second amendment

Yes... the people demanded the right to arm. They told the people writing the Constitution that if they tried to take their arms ,to meet them in Concord.

[cdad]

Well, I'm not salary, I'm hourly.
Also - as I said, there is no extra cost to add a dependent, be it one child or four, and no cost to add a spouse (my son is covered, and my ex-husband was covered while we were married). There is NO COST to me whatsoever. You can refer to it as 'fringe benefits' if you want, I am fully aware of what a fringe benefit package entails (I don't have one) it makes no difference. My point is - it's going to cost some people, like myself, money. Thousands of dollars to pay for something inferior to what you may already have.

Are you positive on this? Employer paid healthcare is a benefit as well as paid holidays and such. It should be spelled out in your contract how much the contribution is.

[talaniman]

Are you sure there are no payroll deductions for part of a health care premium? If not then having to pay something would surely be an added expense, and I know many unions, and non union shop that have increases in their contributions for employer based health insurance.

I am a union guy, and many union shops have contracting out language in their contracts that cover private employees of the company. You sound like an employee of the company that works at the companies discretion, as needed. I don't know if there are enough of you that want a union, but you do have the right to form one or join one, dues and benefits to boot. However if your own contract does indeed cover the total cost of insurance in lieu of pay, then the company can compel you to pay a part of that cost at anytime, Obama Care, or NOT.

However while the right uses the dissatisfaction of unions to bolster the claim that they are against Obama Care, what he fails to acknowledge is the unions in question are still negotiating with the government to iron out a few details that are sticking points and actually are a narrow portion of the total union membership. Much like the exemption for religious organizations.

Many will find out the insurance they have is not what they thought, or the costs that are shifted to you from companies are higher than they were. But the costs for insurance has been going up for companies for a long time, and many can no longer absorb those costs or must shift a higher burden to the employees. Union, or non union. Been there, done that, and that was years ago, well before Obama Care.

I don't know what state you are in, but that has more impact on your costs than the company you work for. It's the state that regulates insurance companies, and some will implement the rules and regulations differently, and frankly, cost will rise until the standards are more uniform between ALL the states.

Yeah free is better than paying a dollar, so you better find out what you actually have before you decide to like it. Trust me companies have used many network restrictions to mitigate those costs to them for decades. Cost shifting is old as dirt.

Read your contract and what your health care calls for under that contract, then you will actually know if you are getting a great deal, or bamboozled by things you don't know. I suspect your deductibles for service are high as hell just from what you wrote. And I bet you get no bills as to what the actual costs for service is.

Blow your mind if you found out that through your deductible you were paying half the bill out of pocket wouldn't it? Find out, and then make a decision whether you like what you have, OR NOT.

[aliseaodo]

(I don't know what state you are in

You sound like an employee of the company that works at the companies discretion, as needed

(I'm in the state of WA - work 40 hrs a week. I guess technically every employed person is working at the owners discretion, but for the last 7 years his discretion has been to have me come in at 7:45 to 4:30 every single day ;) )

When I was offered this job I couldn't believe it. I thought the insurance (the main reason I took this job) was too good to be true but I found that it was good, and it was true! On my offer letter, it reads: Healthcare - 100% paid by (company), same plan that electricians have. (Those are the exact words).

My employer pays $500.00 per month,(that's a flat fee, it doesn't matter how many dependents I have or if I'm married or not) per office employee (there are five of us, 3 project managers/estimators, the owner, and myself) to the union to cover our insurance. My deductible is $250 per person topping out at $500.

One of my tasks is to run the reports and issue the payments for the monthly benefits to the union. I know exactly how much is paid out by my company. Another of my tasks is payroll. The only deductions I have on my pay is medicare, fed tax, social security, and state industrial (L&I). That's it. Pretty dang lucky.

As I said earlier, you can call my coverage 'fringe benefits' if you want, it was not presented in my offer letter as such, but it doesn't change what I'm saying, (I suppose when I think of that term I associate it with what the electricians have as a fringe benefit package - pensions, annuities, healthcare, apprentice training, benefit funds, etc.) if the coverage is dropped insurance will become an extra expense for me. That's the truth! I know what I already have, and me likes it.

[tomder55]

I suspect the union is picking up a good percentage of the cost of your plan. Your change may not come immediately.. but change is coming and it will result in you having to shell out more $$$$$$$$$$$$$

'Cadillac' Health Plans Taxed By Obamacare - Business Insider

Under Obamacare, the government won't start taxing employers who offer so-called “Cadillac” health benefits to their workers for another five years, but companies are already starting to cut back on such plans.

“Employers can't wait until 2018 and make one huge change to their plans,” says Tracy Watts, a senior partner with Mercer. “They're already starting making changes now, so that in 2018 it won't be as hard for employees.”

Under the Affordable Care Act, companies will have to pay an excise tax on plans that cost more than $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family. The employer will have to pay a 40 percent tax on the cost each plan above those levels. (There will be higher thresholds for retiree health plans and for high-risk professions, though the details of those have yet to be announced.)

Many people would be surprised to learn that their current plan would be considered a “Cadillac” plan under Obamacare rules.

“Most of us pay high premiums, and don't feel like we have a high-cost policy,” says Cynthia Weidner, vice president of health and welfare and consulting at HighRoads. “Everyone thinks, 'I don't have a Cadillac plan, my coverage stinks.'”

Actually, even the average health plan costs more than the Cadillac thresholds mandated by Obamacare - about $10,522 per employee, according to the Society for Human Resource Management. (The law includes premiums paid by both the employer and the employee.) At that price, employers would pay a 40 percent tax on the $322 difference—about $130. For a company with 10,000 employees, that equates to a $1,300,000 tax bill.

However, it's not just large companies that are worrying about the excise tax. “It's an issue for every single employer, particularly for state and local governments,” says J.D. Piro, senior vice president of Aon Hewitt's health and benefits legal team. “Governments tend to offer more expensive health benefits than private businesses, and workers often accept lower wages in exchange for those benefits.” (For this reason, unions strongly objected to this provision in the law before it was passed.)

Making it more difficult for employers, some of the minimum requirements of health plans under Obamacare are driving up the cost of plans, just as employers are looking for ways to push costs down. All plans, for example, must now fully cover all preventative care treatments, maternity care, and emergency care.

A Mercer study conducted last year found that 42 percent of employers said that if they made no changes to the plan, they'd be hit by the excise tax in 2018. Mercer projects that it will hit 55 percent of employers by 2022. The survey found that 59 percent of employers would take steps to lower the cost of their plan, with 26 percent saying they'll do whatever is necessary to lower costs below the threshold amount.

[smearcase]

"yes .... the people demanded the right to arm. They told the people writing the Constitution that if they tried to take their arms ,to meet them in Concord."

I doubt that the citizens had to demand much from the writers of the constitution. John Adams left Abigail at home for in some cases years at a time. They knew how to look out for and fend for themselves.
I don't understand what plan the average Joe in America has for defending himself and his family which I asked for in another topic but the founders had a plan and it definitely involved firearms.

[Wondergirl]

the average Joe in America has for defending himself and his family

And I'm still wondering what there is to defend against (for many families). We have lived in a pleasant upper-middle-class suburb of Chicago since 1972 and have enough arms and ammo in our basement to wipe out the gangs in Chicago, but have never had a break-in or personal threat of any sort ourselves.

[smoothy]

For starters... the Obamazombies if the Messiah declares himself president for life... and suspends the constitution.

But if that never happens... the mere fact there are enough people armed and ready to fight back... means the less likely someone will try a repeat of what happened in Germany in the 30's.

If its never needed in our lifetimes... so much the better.

Better to have it and not need it... then need it and not have it.

[tomder55]

Re Abigail... Abby made the bullets !

When the British fired on Boston's harbor and left the continental army with nothing to defend themselves with, Abigail could see it from the window of her house. She could feel the vibrations from the cannons as she held her children close and hoped that what she told them was true—it would all be fine in the end.

Soon after the devastating event, a few officials from the army finally received what they had been requesting for so long: weapons. Unfortunately, although they received muskets, they were dismayed to discover they did not come with bullets or gun powder; they were still defenseless.

Abigail Adams came to the rescue. She went home immediately, gathered all the silver and steel in the house, melted it down, and, with the help of her children, made bullets for the army. After seeing the bravery of this young mother the army was heartened for the first time in a long while. This beautiful act of loyalty gave inspiration to some of the authorities in the army. They heroically took up arms, went to one of the British bases, and stole gun powder and three large cannons.

Abigail Adams

[Wondergirl]

the mere fact there are enough people armed and ready to fight back

They can't agree on where to go for lunch, so why do you think they would be able to coordinate enough to fight the government?

[tomder55]

They can't agree on where to go for lunch, so why do you think they would be able to coordinate enough to fight the government?

Behind every blade of grass.

[smoothy]

They can't agree on where to go for lunch, so why do you think they would be able to coordinate enough to fight the government?

Trust me... they can get mighty coordinated against a common foe it the need ever came up...

And a non centralized foe as numerous as this one would be formitable...

You can't cut the head off to neutralize a force that has no head to begin with.

And unlike Banana Republics and places like North Korea... you can expect most of the army to have a problem with firing on its own citizens

[talaniman]

(I'm in the state of WA - work 40 hrs a week. I guess technically every employed person is working at the owners discretion, but for the last 7 years his discretion has been to have me come in at 7:45 to 4:30 every single day ;) )

When I was offered this job I couldn't believe it. I thought the insurance (the main reason I took this job) was too good to be true but I found that it was good, and it was true! On my offer letter, it reads: Healthcare - 100% paid by (company), same plan that electricians have. (Those are the exact words).

My employer pays $500.00 per month,(that's a flat fee, it doesn't matter how many dependents I have or if I'm married or not) per office employee (there are five of us, 3 project managers/estimators, the owner, and myself) to the union to cover our insurance. My deductible is $250 per person topping out at $500.

One of my tasks is to run the reports and issue the payments for the monthly benefits to the union. I know exactly how much is paid out by my company. Another of my tasks is payroll. The only deductions I have on my pay is medicare, fed tax, social security, and state industrial (L&I). That's it. Pretty dang lucky.

As I said earlier, you can call my coverage 'fringe benefits' if you want, it was not presented in my offer letter as such, but it doesn't change what I'm saying, (I suppose when I think of that term I associate it with what the electricians have as a fringe benefit package - pensions, annuities, healthcare, apprentice training, benefit funds, etc.) if the coverage is dropped insurance will become an extra expense for me. That's the truth! I know what I already have, and me likes it.

Your lucky to have a business savvy boss. I have a family member with her own business who is expanding her services, and upgraded her employee health insurance plan.

Just curious if you have network restrictions on your coverage, or is that your complete choice?

[talaniman]

Trust me....they can get might coordinated against a common foe it the need ever came up...

And a non centralized foe as numerous as this one would be formitable....

You can't cut the head off to neutralize a force that has no head to begin with.

Nazi take over? Armed resistance to the government? Man are you out there. Its less messy to vote every two years.

[smoothy]

Nazi take over? Armed resistance to the government?? Man are you out there.

Listen to your own people that talk about a third term for the Messiah... how do you think that can ever happen? And what would be the result of even trying?

Putting up with two elections no matter how fraudulent they were is one thing... putting up with that stunt would be another.

Incidentally... the Germans didn't see that coming before it happened either...

[talaniman]

Listen to your own people that talk about a third term for the Messiah.....how do you think that can ever happen? and what would be the result of even trying?

Your making that crap up. A delusion from the extremist fringe on the right.

Putting up with two elections no matter how fraudulent they were is one thing....putting up with that stunt would be another..

Sour grapes from the LOSERS. Even republicans are beginning to realize both elections were fair and decisive, except you right wing extremists who think that the will of the people can't be against them.

Incidently...the Germans didn't see that coming before it happened either....

We see YOU wingnuts coming though, and ain't going for it. You probably love Ted Cruz too! That's sad. I feel for you.

[aliseaodo]

Quote:
Just curious if you have network restrictions on your coverage, or is that your complete choice?

Are you asking me? Not sure I understand your question... do you mean restrictions on who I can go to, restrictions with needing referrals? That sort of thing?

[smoothy]

Your making that crap up. A delusion from the extremist fringe on the right.



Sour grapes from the LOSERS. Even republicans are beginning to realize both elections were fair and decisive, except you right wing extremists who think that the will of the people can't be against them.



We see YOU wingnuts coming though, and ain't going for it. You probably love Ted Cruz too! That's sad. I feel for you.

Not sour grapes. Facts, it was proven in many precincts where its statistically impossible for the Republican candidate to get ZERO votes... and legally impossible to have more votes cast than you have legal age adults living in the precinct much less actually registered to vote. Not to mention the cases in Philly where there was videotape proof of lefties threatening and intimidating people at the polls... that the Obama thugs refused to even prosecute...

But then... the lefties have absolutely no problem breaking any and every law on the books and even the constitution to opress the American public... despite their not having any mandate or even the majority popular opinion behind them.

THe left has lied so much about everything... they have convinced themselves that their lies are truth.. when there is absolutely zero proof to back them up.

And they whine and cry every time someone calls them out...

[Wondergirl]

Listen to your own people that talk about a third term for the Messiah

Huh? I am in the swirl of things and read a lot and watch MSNBC and talk to people and have never heard that.