[talaniman]

So you think it was okay to pay premiums for years and get kicked out when you get sick?

[smoothy]

So you think it was okay to pay premiums for years and get kicked out when you get sick?

Who does that happen to? And not some unsubstantiated story that gets passed down through the office grapevine.

[aliseaodo]

https://www.healthcare.gov/health-in...e-marketplace/
Interesting info...

[smoothy]

https://www.healthcare.gov/health-in...e-marketplace/
Interesting info...

Except its by the same people that lied about its true cost for years. The Obama administration.

[paraclete]

https://www.healthcare.gov/health-in...e-marketplace/
Interesting info...

Yes it is interesting sort of dispels some of the hype but you should ask yourselves why you would pay twice as much as I do for health coverage, whose getting the benefit of that? And why if you pay 2.5% of your income you don't get a benefit for that

[aliseaodo]

I pay nothing. Nothing to add my spouse (when I had one), nothing to add my dependent. I have no co-pay. I have medical, dental, orthopedic, prescription, vision, chiropractic, and acupuncture. My deductible is $250 per person and tops out at $500. If my employer decides not to provide this insurance, it will cost me thousands of dollars. Using Excon's calculator ( I also live in the same state) I will pay $429/month without the subsidy, and $210/mo with the subsidy - for silver coverage, and I don't think that is including anything besides medical...

[paraclete]

I pay nothing. Nothing to add my spouse (when I had one), nothing to add my dependent. I have no co-pay. I have medical, dental, orthopedic, prescription, vision, chiropractic, and acupuncture. My deductible is $250 per person and tops out at $500. If my employer decides not to provide this insurance, it will cost me thousands of dollars. Using Excon's calculator ( I also live in the same state) I will pay $429/month without the subsidy, and $210/mo with the subsidy - for silver coverage, and I don't think that is including anything besides medical......

I think you miss the point, your coverage is provided as a fringe benefit so you get it as part of a salary package how ever defined and therefore you do pay in the form of a lower salary or cash not received. It seems the costs vary greatly from state to state and you have to ask why. When you quote these costs you didn't say whether you have other family members covered but assuming you don't I pay $130 a month for coverage with similar benefits, so ask yourself who gets the benefit of the difference

[smoothy]

You have to remember age play a factor in insurance costs as well.

We've had a PPO, meaning we can go to any doctor or specialist that accepts the insurance without a referral (that's almost any we have tried)... had a $15 copay per visit... and a zero deductible... for about $450 a month and I am just over 50 and she is just under it. No way is Obamacare going to improve on that. And that's for a family... not per person. Or even just two.

[aliseaodo]

I think you miss the point, your coverage is provided as a fringe benefit so you get it as part of a salary package how ever defined and therefore you do pay in the form of a lower salary or cash not received. It seems the costs vary greatly from state to state and you have to ask why. When you quote these costs you didn't say whether you have other family members covered but assuming you don't I pay $130 a month for coverage with similar benefits, so ask yourself who gets the benefit of the difference

Well, I'm not salary, I'm hourly.
Also - as I said, there is no extra cost to add a dependent, be it one child or four, and no cost to add a spouse (my son is covered, and my ex-husband was covered while we were married). There is NO COST to me whatsoever. You can refer to it as 'fringe benefits' if you want, I am fully aware of what a fringe benefit package entails (I don't have one) it makes no difference. My point is - it's going to cost some people, like myself, money. Thousands of dollars to pay for something inferior to what you may already have.

[tomder55]

Well, I'm not salary, I'm hourly.
Also - as I said, there is no extra cost to add a dependent, be it one child or four, and no cost to add a spouse (my son is covered, and my ex-husband was covered while we were married). There is NO COST to me whatsoever. You can refer to it as 'fringe benefits' if you want, I am fully aware of what a fringe benefit package entails (I don't have one) it makes no difference. My point is - it's going to cost some people, like myself, money. Thousands of dollars to pay for something inferior to what you may already have.

But weren't you told 'if you like your plan you can keep it ' ? I haven't me a person yet who can tell me that is true when the rubber meets the road. At a minimum it will cost the lucky ones a lot more money in contributions to existing plans (so far my case ) . The unlucky ones?. well ask IBM retirees ; ask Home Depot and Walgreens ,and Trader Joe's employees .

As the official start date for Obamacare draws ever closer, there is more evidence that the law simply won't perform as advertised and, in fact, will cause even greater harm to American society than without the "healthcare reform" it was supposedly crafted to deliver.

Particularly hard hit will be businesses that are going to be required to provide certain levels of health insurance coverage to their employees. The result is going to be a) higher costs to the businesses' customers; and b) a net loss in employment, especially full-time employment.

A new employer survey has found that a plurality of mid-sized and large businesses - 40 percent of 420 companies surveyed - said they are planning changes to the designs of their insurance plans next year and other changes to reduce employee related costs as a new excise tax imposed by Obamacare approaches with pricier plans.

Also, according to Towers Watson, the firm conducting the survey, 60 percent of companies look at private health insurance exchanges as one way of controlling their healthcare and administrative costs by dumping their employees into the state-run health insurance pools called for under the law

Forty percent of U.S. companies to alter health care plans, drop coverage, due to Obamacare
Deloitte estimates that 10% of the companies in the country will drop their employee coverage and opt for their employees to enrole in these new exchanges (many of which are not even close to being ready to implement ) .

But that was the plan all along . The Dems knew that this system would collapse the private health insurance industry . They wanted it to happen that way so they could get around to their real goal... full central state run and control of health care .

[aliseaodo]

but weren't you told 'if you like your plan you can keep it

Not quite. I work for a union shop, I am a non-bargaining member, as is every employee who is not an electrician ( project managers, estimators, office managers (moi), etc.. ) we have no say in union matters, don't pay dues, but do get the benefits. If my employer decides to no longer offer the benefits to us, we lose it. Done and done.

[paraclete]

Not quite. I work for a union shop, I am a non-bargaining member, as is every employee who is not an electrician ( project managers, estimators, office managers (moi), etc..) we have no say in union matters, don't pay dues, but do get the benefits. If my employer decides to no longer offer the benefits to us, we lose it. Done and done.

And you are saying your union brothers won't defend you, shame! But surely if it is a union shop the other ranks can have a union too

[aliseaodo]

and you are saying your union brothers won't defend you, shame! But surely if it is a union shop the other ranks can have a union too

Hmm... in what world would a bargaining member 'defend' a non-bargaining member?! That makes no sense. Anyhow - my point stands. If my employer decides to cut our coverage, it will cost us money. It does not benefit us in any way, it is quite the contrary. (btw - in regards to 'the other ranks can have a union too' - that's not how it works.)

[paraclete]

Hmm...in what world would a bargaining member 'defend' a non-bargaining member?! That makes no sense. Anyhow - my point stands. If my employer decides to cut our coverage, it will cost us money. It does not benefit us in any way, it is quite the contrary. (btw - in regards to 'the other ranks can have a union too' - that's not how it works.)

How can you be a non-bargaining member? You mean you are just there to make up the numbers. What you are saying is your union brothers forged an agreement where non members are included in the benefits. You don't understand unions, any erosion of benefits is an attack on the union's rights and benefits and they will defend these because they know if you are excluded they are next

[aliseaodo]

How can you be a non-bargaining member

Umm have you never heard of this? I didn't make it up. I work for an electrical contracting company that is in the union with IBEW(International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers)but I am not a 'laborer' (in this case an electrician) I work in the office. The owners signed an agreement with the union that allows the same health benefits the union (electricians) members get for the non-bargaining (non-electricians)employees.

you mean you are just there to make up the numbers

Make up the numbers? What numbers - explain this.

You don't understand unions,

Huh - I don't? Enlighten me, please.

any erosion of benefits is an attack on the union's rights and benefits and they will defend these because they know if you are excluded they are next

Again - I am a non-bargaining member (you should really look that up) Sure - any erosion on the unions benefits would be seen as an attack. Again, (and again) I am a non-bargaining member, what happens to the office employees health benefits have no sway whatsoever on the union members - at all. You suggesting so makes me think that you don't understand unions.
Anyhow, this thread is being side-barred - my point, again, is that Obamacare will cost a lot of people a lot of money. A lot.

[paraclete]

Umm have you never heard of this? I didn't make it up. I work for an electrical contracting company that is in the union with IBEW(International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers).

Let me enlighten you if I can?

Firstly; as an office worker I was a member of a union for many years, I didn't have to be but like you I enjoyed the flow on from what the unions negotiated, a somewhat similar situation to yourself. As a member of middle management I felt I should show my solidarity with those I worked with, I was both card carrying and paid up. Notice that word solidarity, it is the key to unions.

Secondly; I was raised in the home of a staunch member of a union, my father fought against communist control of his union. the Miners Federation. So I understood the nature of unions from an early age. Not many shed blood for what they believe but he did. This is also in the nature of unions

I fail to understand that you say your company is in the union, I hope you mean they have a contract with the union. Now I also understand that life in our two nations is different but one in all in is a universal union principle

[aliseaodo]

I was both card carrying and paid up. Notice that word solidarity, it is the key to unions.

Solidarity is key, for members. I carry no card, I pay no dues. I WORK for a union shop. I am not IN the union.

I fail to understand that you say your company is in the union, I hope you mean they have a contract with the union.

Yes - that is what I mean. I work for a company that has an agreement with PSEW IBEW (Puget Sound Electrical Workers International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) Local 46.
The company I work for employs union electricians. They do the labor. The office staff of course, are not electricians, therefore we do not belong to the electricians union. We are lucky enough that the owners of the company wanted to provide for us the same benefits that are given to the electricians, they signed an agreement with the union that would allow us such. If at any time, the owners want to 'cancel' this agreement, it makes no difference to the actual union members at all.
Their medical coverage (included in their fringe benefit package - which is actually around $17.48/ HR) is unphased and unchanged. I don't know how this became a union lecture - I was trying to say that Obamacare is not good for a lot of people. I am very happy where I am coverage wise - and am worried sick (no pun intended) that my employer will decide to drop it, and I will find myself with just one more expense for something half as good. Boo and boo.

[tomder55]

and you are saying your union brothers won't defend you, shame! but surely if it is a union shop the other ranks can have a union too

You know as well as I do that the unions are DESPERATELY petitioning Congress to change the provisions of Obamacare that they are getting burned over .

[tomder55]

Solidarity is key, for members. I carry no card, I pay no dues. I WORK for a union shop. I am not IN the union.
Yes - that is what I mean. I work for a company that has an agreement with PSEW IBEW (Puget Sound Electrical Workers International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) Local 46.
The company I work for employs union electricians. They do the labor. The office staff of course, are not electricians, therefore we do not belong to the electricians union. We are lucky enough that the owners of the company wanted to provide for us the same benefits that are given to the electricians, they signed an agreement with the union that would allow us such. If at any time, the owners want to 'cancel' this agreement, it makes no difference to the actual union members at all.
Their medical coverage (included in their fringe benefit package - which is actually around $17.48/ HR) is unphased and unchanged. I don't know how this became a union lecture - I was trying to say that Obamacare is not good for a lot of people. I am very happy where I am coverage wise - and am worried sick (no pun intended) that my employer will decide to drop it, and I will find myself with just one more expense for something half as good. Boo and boo.

You are justified in being concerned. Some companies have calculated the added expenses of carrying their employees in a company sponsored plan. But I suspect many are going to be hit square between the eyes when are confronted with these escalating costs . Many will make the raw calculation that the exchanges are a real alternative.

[excon]

Hello again,

Many will make the raw calculation that the exchanges are a real alternative.

Companies like Trader Joe's supplement their employees purchase of health care on the exchanges. It results in LOWER costs for the company, and GOOD coverage at NO additional cost for their employees.

I think that's the way it's supposed to happen.

Excon