[talaniman]

Well it just passed in the house. One dem and one repub crossed over.

[excon]

Hello again,

It occurs to me that right wingers AREN'T afraid the law will FAIL, as much as they're afraid that it will SUCCEED and become part of the fabric of the collective conscience. Worst yet, it'll be a clear legacy victory for President Obama. Can't have that.

If they actually think it's a "trainwreck", they should let it be implemented, and when it turns out to BE a trainwreck, it'll be EASY to repeal...

excon

[tomder55]

Hello again,

It occurs to me that right wingers AREN'T afraid the law will FAIL, as much as they’re afraid that it will SUCCEED and become part of the fabric of the collective conscience. Worst yet, it'll be a clear legacy victory for President Obama. Can't have that.

If they actually think it's a "trainwreck", they should let it be implemented, and when it turns out to BE a trainwreck, it'll be EASY to repeal...

excon

There's that word 'collective ' again. I heard the emperor use that word yesterday when he was speaking about how important the government was in our lives.
But why would I want a 'train wreck ' implemented just to prove my point ? The right thing to do would be to attempt to prevent a train wreck .

[Wondergirl]

But why would I want a 'train wreck ' implemented just to prove my point ? The right thing to do would be to attempt to prevent a train wreck .

Ah, but there might NOT be a train wreck, and the journey will be through amazing picturesque countryside.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

But why would I want a 'train wreck ' implemented just to prove my point ?

Because that would be the ONLY way you COULD prove your point... Certainly, flapping your gums ain't doing it.

Excon

[tomder55]

Hello again, tom:
Because that would be the ONLY way you COULD prove your point... Certainly, flapping your gums ain't doing it.

excon

So you think I want the economy destroyed to prove my point ? You are talking to me.. not the emperor.

[talaniman]

so you think I want the economy destroyed to prove my point ? You are talking to me ..not the emperor.

Progressives want to build a new house we all can live in, and conservative want to fix up the old house for themselves and everybody else can sleep in the back yard.

We gotcha.

[smoothy]

Progressives expect a couple of the people to pay for the entire apartment block to be built

[tomder55]

Progressives want to build a new house we all can live in, and conservative want to fix up the old house for themselves and everybody else can sleep in the back yard.

We gotcha.

You want to inflict this monstrosity on the people while at the same time delaying corporate mandates ;and exempting government employees. At the minimum the individual mandate should be delayed until the exchanges are set up , the software works ,and there is actually a way to verify eligibility for the subsidies .
But no ;you want individuals to start paying for the plan before there is ever a chance of it working . Let me advise you that the best thing you could do at this point is call your Reps in Capitol Hill and insist that the implementation get delayed until after the 2014 elections.

Nahh this plan is a train wreck that I don't want to see inflicted on the American people .

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

you want to inflict this monstrosity on the people

Round 6 months ago we had a presidential election... One guy said his FIRST job was to repeal Obamacare.. He lost.

Doesn't THAT poll count?

Excon

[talaniman]

But no ;you want individuals to start paying for the plan before there is ever a chance of it working

Yes, people with no insurance should get some right NOW! Why is this a big deal if you have insurance already? The only states that aren't ready are the ones the republican governors have dithered on but the insurances companies are ready.

You want to make excuses for the next 8 days, go ahead.

You want to shutdown the government unless its repealed, GO AHEAD.

[speechlesstx]

I know, you don't care, we're supposed to love this thing that most Americans don't want and never did anyway. But here goes anyway, the reason we've had this crap on forced on us? Obama needed a campaign applause line...

“We needed something to say,” recalled one of the advisers involved in the discussion. “I can’t tell you how little thought was given to that thought other than it sounded good...

And so from an applause line by the guy who probably wasn't going to win anyway who needed SOMETHING to say, we're screwed. Compare to the Syria red line, he just needed something to say. What else is a product of the guy just needed something to say? Terrific...

Good luck with health care exchanges that aren't ready to go in finding something that doesn't give you fewer choices than you had before.

Lower Health Insurance Premiums to Come at Cost of Fewer Choices
By ROBERT PEAR

WASHINGTON — Federal officials often say that health insurance will cost consumers less than expected under President Obama’s health care law. But they rarely mention one big reason: many insurers are significantly limiting the choices of doctors and hospitals available to consumers.

From California to Illinois to New Hampshire, and in many states in between, insurers are driving down premiums by restricting the number of providers who will treat patients in their new health plans.

...

Some consumer advocates and health care providers are increasingly concerned. Decades of experience with Medicaid, the program for low-income people, show that having an insurance card does not guarantee access to specialists or other providers.

Consumers should be prepared for “much tighter, narrower networks” of doctors and hospitals, said Adam M. Linker, a health policy analyst at the North Carolina Justice Center, a statewide advocacy group.

Over to you for the "it just needs a few tweaks" pablum.

[Wondergirl]

I know, you don't care, we're supposed to love this thing that most Americans don't want

But... but... but... Massachusetts LOVES Romneycare!

[excon]

Hello:

Over to you for the "it just needs a few tweaks" pablum.

In my state, I calculated the cost for a 32 year old single person who makes $25,000 a year. His cost for a silver plan (not the best, but not the worst), is $144/mo.

That's not bad. No tweaking needed here.

Yeah... That's the stuff I focus on - the people who'll benefit. That's about 33 MILLION people. If you want to offer an amendment that'll tweak how we pay for it, that'll be GREAT. But, it's HERE. It's the LAW of the LAND, and it AIN'T going anywhere.

If you DON'T suggest a better way to pay for it, then the way the DEMOCRATS did it, will take effect shortly... So, you can be part of the SOLUTION, or you can shut down the government...

How's that going to work for you?

Before I go, let me ask you this: If kidnappers killed your children because you DIDN'T pay the ransom, is their death on YOU, or the kidnappers??

Excon

[smoothy]

In 13 states plus DC... premiums will be 24% higher than BEFORE Obamacare.

Interactive Map: In 13 States Plus D.C., Obamacare Will Increase Health Premiums By 24%, On Average - Forbes

[Wondergirl]

In 13 states plus DC...premiums will be 24% higher than BEFORE Obamacare

Competition will bring that back down. Sit tight. Breathe deeply. This is America, the land of free enterprise.

[smoothy]

Competition will bring that back down. Sit tight. Breathe deeply. This is America, the land of free enterprise.

Yeah and right... just like the total cost is now well over triple what Obama promised would be the total cost...


Excuse me if I don't believe an administration that has lied about everything for 5 straight years.

[talaniman]

I click on a few states and there was no data yet for the exchange rates. Half the staes cited had lower rates

Most states are seeing rate hikes; some will see reductions

Three states will see meaningful declines in rates: Colorado (34 percent), Ohio (30 percent), and New York (27 percent).

Because Obamacare forces most Americans to buy health insurance, and subsidizes the purchase of that insurance for certain low-income populations, individual-market premiums in many of these highly-regulated states will go down. But in most others, rates will go up

The better the rules and regulation, the cheaper the price. Thanks Smoothy. Oh it says states have to make rules and regulations to keep prices down in the ACA.

[smoothy]

That's easy... everyone will have a $20,000 deductible. That's how prices are kept down... services are limited and out of pocket is increased.

That's the differnce between a good and a cheap medical plan now... and its not going to change... you can't get something for nothing.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...amily-of-four/

[speechlesstx]

Hello:
In my state, I calculated the cost for a 32 year old single person who makes $25,000 a year. His cost for a silver plan (not the best, but not the worst), is $144/mo.

That's not bad. No tweaking needed here.

Yeah... That's the stuff I focus on - the people who'll benefit. That's about 33 MILLION people. If you wanna offer an amendment that'll tweak how we pay for it, that'll be GREAT. But, it's HERE. It's the LAW of the LAND, and it AIN'T going anywhere.

If you DON'T suggest a better way to pay for it, then the way the DEMOCRATS did it, will take effect shortly... So, you can be part of the SOLUTION, or you can shut down the government....

How's that gonna work for ya?

Before I go, lemme ask you this: If kidnappers killed your children because you DIDN'T pay the ransom, is their death on YOU, or the kidnappers???

excon

Dude, even the NY Times admits the insurance companies are going to be dictating even fewer choices - and all thanks to a guy who just needed something to say. All he wanted was to win and damn the consequences.