[paraclete]

For a while Greece and its crisis went away, we had more important things to think about but they are back and guess what they want? No prizes here, They want more money! And they have said they won't accept austerity this time, beggars with conditions, like are they doing us a favour giving them money to squander. My take on this is if some banks fail, it couldn't happen to a nicer group of rip off merchants. You want more money, take a cut in salary, do a merger or two, sell off some ancient monuments, surely you could get a couple of billion for the pathenon how much is a greek island worth anyway?

[tomder55]

But they won't.. they will print more monopoly euros instead ,backed by the German hard labor.

[paraclete]

No Once Merkel is back in the seat, the Germans will have no stomach for paying for greek holidays

[tomder55]

“The crisis emerged over many years, through founding errors in the euro. For example, Greece should not have been admitted into the euro area,”
Angela Merkel at a recent campaign stop.

But then again ;the euro was shoved down the throats of the Europeans by their bureaucratic political class.

[paraclete]

Never forget that the euro was the result of referendums, but who should participate, that is a horse of a different colour. It is a successful product and everyone wants a piece.

When it becomes the home of liars and thieves you have a problem and that is exactly what happened. The greeks have not learned that the world doesn't own them a living, they should go back to being fishermen and goatherds

[paraclete]

It's a long time since pigs were in fashion but the victory of the left in Greece has sent a resurgence of anti-austerity across Europe and we will again be talking about the pigs and their impacts, particularly if default is on the table.

[talaniman]

Well if austerity hasn't worked, then you have little choice but get a new plan.

[tomder55]

If austerity didn't work then QE won't. Hate to tell you ,but the reason for the economic recovery here was not QE . It was a combination of drill baby drill and the sequester cuts.

The Europeans certainly have come a long way from creating an artificial currency in 2002 ;and their 2009 ratification of the Lisbon Treaty .
Yes the Syriza victory will send shock waves throughout Europe But the world will not like what comes of it . Virtually every European nation has a growing opposition to the EU . It is based on national identity , having control of their own economies ,and control of their borders. The problem is that the sovereign states tend to not get along ;and there is one historically proven way to unite the continent .....and that it is unthinkable

[talaniman]

Time they started talking as they have had enough wars already. They may have to have ONE economic sovereignty, with checks and balances to keep it fair.

I can agree with your account of our own recovery, but would not discount QE so offhand. I think we can both agree that our own recovery has been very lopsided at best. All the drill baby drill won't strengthen the consumers in a consumer driven economy.

The Europeans certainly do not have a product they can sell for big bucks, or use themselves for big savings, like we do either.

[tomder55]

Here is the big difference between our sequester and the Greek austerity . Most of the Greek workforce is on the government payroll. So cuts hits them directly . Our sequester cuts are for the most part trimming unnecessary fat off the budget .

[tomder55]

The Europeans certainly do not have a product they can sell for big bucks, or use themselves for big savings, like we do either

The Germans do .They are a manufacturing dynamo and have a huge export advantage over their fellow Europeans (about 50 percent of its GDP ). So of course the loans from Germany to the PIGS tend to favor that relationship. It is no different really than what we did with the Marshall Plan. We gave Europe economic assistance to buy US products .We knew we would not get the money back . But Europe became a big market for US exports.

[tomder55]

btw ; one additional thing that helped the unemployment rate drop in 2014.... Congress resisting the emperor's call the extend yet again the unemployment benefits .
Economists from the University of Oslo, the Institute for International Economic Studies and the University of Pennsylvania did a study and concluded that 1.8 million new jobs were filled due to the benefits cut of which 1 million were filled by the unemployed who had quit looking for work because of the extended benefits. They published their findings at the National Bureau of Economic Research .

In levels, 1.8 million additional jobs were created in 2014 due to the benet cut. Almost
1 million of these jobs were lled by workers from out of the labor force who would not
have participated in the labor market had benet extensions been reauthorized.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h8t0f9dk4i...nt_Miracle.pdf

It happened on his watch so of course the emperor took full credit for creating jobs "at the fastest pace since 1999". Just like he takes credit for the energy exploration being done on private lands that he and his cronies oppose.

[talaniman]

The right blames Obama for everything under the sun they don't like so he may as well take credit when there is good news, but I digress from the discussion. For all the new jobs, many on the low pay scale, wages have not matched the success of the major companies who have enjoyed profound record successes that hasn't translated to a strong vibrant middle class since all the good middle class jobs have been exported and will never return.

Now you can pass over this fact but the trend toward underemployment leaves a huge vacuum in the consumer demand markets here and globally and until that has been corrected then austerity, aka trickle down economics will never work for any but the very rich (Like it was designed to do decades ago).

It empowers the rich to manipulate the FREE capitalist market at whim or whimsy, at the expense of the rest of the global population.

[tomder55]

what ? You mean that command and control Obamanomics for 6 full years didn't result in a strong vibrant middle class ? How could that be ? Could it be that the unintended consequences of Obamacare is the transition of the work force from full time to part time status ? You are ridiculously fixated on major corporations when it is in fact the small businesses that drive the economy and the employment outlook for the nation. Now do you really think that all these small businesses in the country would prefer to hire part timers over a full time workforce when they have the need for the labor ? Nope. It is government mandates that is forcing them to make this decision or go out of business. Many a small business just can't afford to offer medical insurance to their full time employees like Obamacare mandates . So out of necessity ;not greed , they hire a part time work force.

As if small businesses don't have enough to deal with ,with the burdensome regulations that force many to either go out of business or to consolidate and get absorbed by too big to fail rent seekers.

[talaniman]

Dude, have you even looked at the SMALL businesses that have part time employees? Mom and pop left long before Obama came into the picture. Then the factories followed so what's left? I mean show me a middle class job that has part time workers.

http://newsroom.bankofamerica.com/si...ner_Report.pdf

[tomder55]

you are obviously missing the trend brought to the nation with the Obamacare regulations . Your beloved ACA has incentives for employers to shed full time workers . Under the emperor ,29 hrs is the new normal . Why ? because at 30 hrs the employer mandate kicks in. Now you will tell me that the emperor delayed the mandate for a year to get the Dems past the elections . But too late . Employers are already adjusting to the new reality .
And yes ,it is not just small businesses either . Most service sector employers will have to make that choice too. But it is definitely a small business problem . Many of them are taking to cutting the payroll to under 50 employees because the mandate kicks in with over 50 employees. You think they want that ? Of course not . It's the emperor's policies that is causing your under employment nation.

[talaniman]

You obviously missed the trend that brought this nation to ObamaCare. Soaring healthcare costs and high uninsured costs. You obviously missed the trend the rising jobs in the healthcare field.

From 2011,

Demand for health care jobs rising - Providence Business News

To now,

Health Care's Biggest Paradox: Slowing Spending, Rising Jobs - Forbes

Now back to my original question, who are these small businesses with the part time workers because of Obama Care? Do you really think this country will be sustained and be great because of burger flippers?

[paraclete]

You have obviously missed the point about Greece and the attitude of the people. People are less inclined to accept this right wing b.s, it gets old quickly even if reform is needed. So we are going to see much more media about the PIGS who for those who have forgotten are Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain. I wonder if anyone in the US would be able to take the pain Greece has endured, apparently they have a balanced budget, try it on for size

[talaniman]

People are less inclined to accept this right wing b.s, it gets old quickly even if reform is needed.

YEP!

This is getting kind of scary Clete, we agree again!

[tomder55]

not Ireland ,they are doing fine now that they adoped the conservative economic models . Italy is the other socialist basket case . I would love a balanced buget . The Obama debt has soared to an unsustainable $18 trillion. Eventually the piper has to be paid. Greece’s debt is about 150 percent of its GDP. Under the emperor ours will have balloned to about 90% of GDP by 2020 if we don't have a course correction.
The Greeks suffer from a collective entitlement mentality ,and a government patronage system . Their mistake was allowing the governement to become the largest employer in the country (over 22% of the workforce works for the government ) .
Under their generous system a government employee can retire after 35 years of service at 80 percent of their highest salary and enjoy lavish health plans, vacations, and other perks. The perks while on the job are just as insane . Some get extra pay for using computers. Some even get extra pay for showing up on time. They get 14 months pay for 12 months of work ;and like the NYC teachers ,it is almost impossible to fire them for any reason. They don't even need public sector unions to protect their perks. They vote in their bosses . That's how radical lefties like the Syriza get elected .
The government should start privatizing it's services and then you will see them begin to recover . But that aint going to happen . The noew government is nixing the partial privitization of the country's Public Power Corp that began with the previous adm ,and is suspending the sale of 67% of the Piraeus Port Authority to China. They are also going to rehire 10,000 government workers who were laid off . They are doing all the wrong things . Their previous model was a failure ,and they are planning on doubling down on on it .