[speechlesstx]

It is not possible to have an honest discussion over cliches. Cliches are used for the purpose of exaggeration and dramatic effect. It show that I admire your persistence. Most people would have been prepared to drop the argument at this point.

And I was just having a little fun, I do that from time to time.

[NeedKarma]

It is not possible to have an honest discussion over cliches. Cliches are used for the purpose of exaggeration and dramatic effect. It show that I admire your persistence. Most people would have been prepared to drop the argument at this point.

Beautiful post. The subtlety is sweet. :)

[talaniman]

I can't help but believe our kids don't suffer more or as much during an economic down turn than the parents do. TJ said something that stuck with me about parents at her school were responsible for getting their kids to school and picking them up, and without that basic function of transportation, many would be excluded from that opportunity. Maybe this is less a problem in rural areas than urban ones, but the benefit of having a car is one less obstacle to overcome.

Many older schools are being closed in large urban centers which to me translates to a lot of disruptions for the kids, and adjustments for parents. Economics often adds to the obstacles especially with those that don't have much flexibility in their work schedules, or budgets.

[tomder55]

Many older schools are being closed in large urban centers which to me translates to a lot of disruptions for the kids, and adjustments for parents.

Many of those buildings would not quailify as animal shelters . Despite the fortune collected in revenues from taxes ,the public school system cannot provide safe and secure facilities ;and hire teachers qualifed to teach the subject matter .Yet most school administrators get a complete pass . Perhaps the reason is that they know how to get the job done ,but are handcuffed by regulations and union work rules. It's a good public works system if you just overlook the fact that they utterly fail where their primary role is measured .

[speechlesstx]

Beautiful post. The subtlety is sweet. :)

Get a room.

[Wondergirl]

Many older schools are being closed in large urban centers which to me translates to a lot of disruptions for the kids, and adjustments for parents. Economics often adds to the obstacles especially with those that don't have much flexibility in their work schedules, or budgets.

Chicago closed 49 schools and set up routes labeled with yellow "Safe Passage" signs so students will know where to walk to get to a new school that's farther away from home. Interestingly, a man was shot and killed the other day on one of these routes. So much for "safe."

[NeedKarma]

Get a room.

For what?

[paraclete]

Perhaps he means a schools can be set up in a room ah la two hundred years ago perhaps you could have one in every house

[speechlesstx]

Time for another education update. Our illustrious Attorney General has sued Louisiana to block their school voucher program.

Give Eric Holder credit for cognitive racial dissonance. On nearly the same day the Attorney General spoke in Washington to honor the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I have a dream" speech, his Justice Department sued to block the educational dreams of minority children in Louisiana.

Late last week, Justice asked a federal court to stop 34 school districts in the Pelican State from handing out private-school vouchers so kids can escape failing public schools. Mr. Holder's lawyers claim the voucher program appears "to impede the desegregation progress" required under federal law. Justice provides little evidence to support this claim, but there couldn't be a clearer expression of how the civil-rights establishment is locked in a 1950s time warp.

Passed in 2012, Louisiana's state-wide program guarantees a voucher to students from families with incomes below 250% of poverty and who attend schools graded C or below. The point is to let kids escape the segregation of failed schools, and about 90% of the beneficiaries are black.

But Justice is more worried about the complexion of the schools' student body than their manifest failure to educate. During the 2012-13 school year, about 10% of voucher recipients came from 22 districts that remain under desegregation orders from 50 or so years ago

So why does Holder hate black people?

[talaniman]

http://www.thetowntalk.com/article/2...o-Details-come

Justice Department tries to block Louisiana's school voucher program | Fox News

The Louisiana Supreme Court ruled in May that the state could not use the allotted voucher money, resulting in Jindal finding about $40 million in other public funds to help the roughly 8,000 students already enrolled in the program this school year.

Even the folks in Louisiana have doubt about Jindal's voucher plan. Just curious have you done any analysis of the plan and its performance?

[speechlesstx]

http://www.thetowntalk.com/article/2...o-Details-come

Justice Department tries to block Louisiana's school voucher program | Fox News



Even the folks in Louisiana have doubt about Jindal's voucher plan. Just curious have you done any analysis of the plan and its performance?

Even Obama has softened his stance on vouchers (whether sincere or not), but the question is what do the parents of these children think?

[talaniman]

I have often questioned the wisdom of privatizing education because like private prisons have become just a for profit warehousing that may not be a better system for our kid in the long run. I can see where its attractive to cash strapped states to have private companies build new buildings for our kids, that makes fiscal sense, but I am not convinced the oversight is there for certification of teachers or even the standards required are being met.

As the data comes in for real results, private school are not out performing traditional school as a whole but all over the country, like public school some are better than other, some are great, and some are really as bad as the public schools.

Politics aside, we have a ways to go. Private, or public.

Even Obama has softened his stance on vouchers (whether sincere or not), but the question is what do the parents of these children think?

I would imagine if their kids get a good education that translates in further educational gains and a great job future they would be happy. I was/am. I guess the jury is out until that happen.

[speechlesstx]

You act as if there are no standards for private schools. Give parents a choice.

[talaniman]

That's not what I said, as a parent I would want access to whatever they are doing and access to those teachers. Just my own experience, and opinion, the PTA and how regularly they meet, and how involved parents are is a good indication of how successful the children will be. It an important interaction between parents, teachers, and school administration.

A shiny new building with clean hallways is great but teaching is done in a room with an adult, and without parental participation and interaction how do we address a students needs, and make sure we are making a difference. Now if the process of implementing a curriculum, and certifying teachers is open to parents/community/ and state oversight, okay we can go forward in the right direction, but if its purely in the hands of business men and their accountants, I have a problem.

I would hope every parent would take a deeper look into who, what, and how our children are educated. Just to make sure our children are not turned into some commodity to be profited from.

[speechlesstx]

Here is Slate's idea of a "deeper look" into education.

If You Send Your Kid to Private School, You Are a Bad Person

You are a bad person if you send your children to private school. Not bad like murderer bad—but bad like ruining-one-of-our-nation’s-most-essential-institutions-in-order-to-get-what’s-best-for-your-kid bad. So, pretty bad.

Well, I guess all those libs better get their kids out of private schools and lead by example. More from this genius...

I am not an education policy wonk: I’m just judgmental. But it seems to me that if every single parent sent every single child to public school, public schools would improve. This would not happen immediately. It could take generations. Your children and grandchildren might get mediocre educations in the meantime, but it will be worth it, for the eventual common good. (Yes, rich people might cluster. But rich people will always find a way to game the system: That shouldn’t be an argument against an all-in approach to public education any more than it is a case against single-payer health care.)

Someone tell me this is satire, right? I want to believe it is but it's too much like the arguments I see here - even though Obamacare sucks we gotta go for it anyway, I mean sure it might suck for years, generations even, but eventually it's all going to pan out - that sort of thing.

You can't make this stuff up.

[talaniman]

I think it was written to look at the question of when all the private schools are full what of the kids that aren't in private schools. They need good teachers and computers too don't they?

Do you believe in means testing for income, or do you believe rich well to do kids should get a subsidy for their kids going to private school?

Your thoughts because obviously every child won't be in private schools.

[speechlesstx]

Tal, you're a bad person if you don't send you kids to public schools? Even if your kid gets a crappy education send them anyway? Is that really what the left espouses, mediocrity in hopes of something better through osmosis?

"Your local school stinks but you don’t send your child there?"

Uh, not if I can help it.

"I understand. You want the best for your child, but your child doesn’t need it."

That's not for you to say.

"If you can afford private school (even if affording means scrimping and saving, or taking out loans), chances are that your spawn will be perfectly fine at a crappy public school."

Take chances with your own kid. Here's the crux of her message:

Also remember that there’s more to education than what’s taught. As rotten as my school’s English, history, science, social studies, math, art, music, and language programs were, going to school with poor kids and rich kids, black kids and brown kids, smart kids and not-so-smart ones, kids with superconservative Christian parents and other upper-middle-class Jews like me was its own education and life preparation. Reading Walt Whitman in ninth grade changed the way you see the world? Well, getting drunk before basketball games with kids who lived at the trailer park near my house did the same for me. In fact it’s part of the reason I feel so strongly about public schools.

Right, they got to have that 'village' thing going, it's much more important than an actual education. Who cares if they learn anything useful as long as they get to party on and get all multicultural and all that.

I wonder how this is playing in Chicago?

[talaniman]

Why can't anyone answer my questions?

When all the private schools are full what of the kids that aren't in private schools? They need good teachers and computers too don't they?

Do you believe in means testing for income, or do you believe rich well to do families should get a subsidy for their kids going to private school?

I don't want to argue about the opinion of one pundit. Can we get facts? Or at least show me the data that's says all the private schools are superior to the ones we have let fail for whatever reason.

Can we get back to the kids and not just the ones whose parents can get them into a private school?

[Tuttyd]

Tal, you're a bad person if you don't send you kids to public schools? Even if your kid gets a crappy education send them anyway? Is that really what the left espouses, mediocrity in hopes of something better through osmosis?

Don't worry about the article it is satire.

[speechlesstx]

Why can't anyone answer my questions?

When all the private schools are full what of the kids that aren't in private schools? They need good teachers and computers too don't they?

Yes, maybe you can find a way to utilize the gazillions in tax dollars they get and also fire bad teachers.

Do you believe in means testing for income, or do you believe rich well to do families should get a subsidy for their kids going to private school?

Since when are you a fan of means testing? Should those who actually pay taxes not benefit from them? Just asking.

I don't want to argue about the opinion of one pundit. Can we get facts? Or at least show me the data that's says all the private schools are superior to the ones we have let fail for whatever reason.

No, you just want to change the subject whenever some lib let's the truth slip out.

Can we get back to the kids and not just the ones whose parents can get them into a private school?

I have been talking about the kids, while your side is doing everything in its power to keep them in trapped in the system, even though "Your children and grandchildren might get mediocre educations in the meantime, but it will be worth it, for the eventual common good.”

And I started this thread, and this is what we're discussing, the new public school 'manifesto.'