[talaniman]

Damon is the perfect example, choice for me but not for thee.

He has money and more choices, you get a voucher, and hope you can use it. If you can't..?

[talaniman]

And why is Chicago broke?

Don't think democrat and republican, think rich and poor. Which are YOU?

[tomder55]

That's NOT what I said, or even implied. Try to be accurate even if you have to reread it. It's more complex than just National Standards because as we have seen how its implemented is different in every district, and state. City, or rural.

A national control of curriculum is highly suspect of becoming a national control of ideas. One size doesn't fit all ;even at the local level. To try to gage performance on a nation level has been proven to be impossible even though it has been tried repeatedly . It didn't work with GHW Bush's America 2000 plan.It failed with Clintoon's America 2000 plan. It failed under GW Bush's NCLB... and the Emperor's Common Core has now been demonstrated to equally be a failure. All we have to do is look to the North. Canada routinely outscores the US in international exams ;but has no national standards .

And what happens to states that have tougher standards than Common Core ? Are they to abandon them for the promise of Federal funding ? Seems to me the goal of Common Core is uniformity instead of excellence.

[talaniman]

I see no evidence that higher standards means less federal money.

[tomder55]

Nonetheless it's true . States like Massachusetts or Virginia that have standards that exceed the national standards in Common Core will lose out in Federal Funding (not that the Federal Government has any business funding education anyway) .

[talaniman]

How? Why?

[speechlesstx]

That's NOT what I said, or even implied. Try to be accurate even if you have to reread it. It's more complex than just National Standards because as we have seen how its implemented is different in every district, and state. City, or rural.

Then the NYC 'bastion of liberalism' if that's what you meant, is just a microcosm of public education as a whole which seems to be worse in the most liberal areas.

[speechlesstx]

How? Why?

You know the feds work, money has strings attached. Do it their way or lose out on funding.

[Tuttyd]

I believe that was the point of the thread, national standards have only resulted in even lower scores. The problem is much more than that, public schools are a 'liberal bastion' as even Tal acknowledges and the usual answer is to throw more money at it and fight choice tooth and nail keeping kids in failing schools.

Of course they have resulted in lower scores that's the whole idea. Exactly the same thing happened here. The first response is to show the inadequacy of educational relativism. The second response is to recognize the work you have to do to bring yourself up the ladder.

It IS the OP I have been addressing with all my posts

[tomder55]

How? Why?

Because the so called 'Race to the Top is in fact a Race to the Trough of gvt give aways. States with already higher standards will lose out . In truth however ,Federal money should not be dolled out for education. There is no mandate for it in the constitution.

[Tuttyd]

Because the so called 'Race to the Top is in fact a Race to the Trough of gvt give aways. States with already higher standards will lose out . In truth however ,Federal money should not be dolled out for education. There is no mandate for it in the constitution.

That's only in relative terms. The reality is that you don't have adequate standards.
You have an ideological objection and this is why you are in the position you are at the moment. Time to up skill.

[tomder55]

On the contrary... I've seen the progressive ideology in action for the last 50 years. If you are looking for causation it is there where you can start.

[talaniman]

Because the so called 'Race to the Top is in fact a Race to the Trough of gvt give aways. States with already higher standards will lose out . In truth however ,Federal money should not be dolled out for education. There is no mandate for it in the constitution.

Doesn't matter, its up to the people that live under the constitution to define what our mandates are, and not the few, but all of us.

[Tuttyd]

on the contrary .... I've seen the progressive ideology in action for the last 50 years. If you are looking for causation it is there where you can start.

Ok then. I'll go along with that being the cause in the last 50 years. That was then, this is now. Time for a fresh approach in a competitive local and international market. As I keep saying, time for private and public sector education to up skill by way of higher common standards.

[talaniman]

Good luck with getting the private sector to invest in workers for the future when they won't invest in them now. It a great idea but they rather profit and exploit, and export the talents and kill they need rather than invest in growing their own talent pools here.

Its cheaper with quicker returns. You see what the private sector did with its tax cuts the last 10 years. They invested every place but here. Be nice though if they partnered with the public sector to educate and train the future work force.

[speechlesstx]

Ok then. I'll go along with that being the cause in the last 50 years. That was then, this is now. Time for a fresh approach in a competitive local and international market. As I keep saying, time for private and public sector education to up skill by way of higher common standards.

We've had standards, we had standards when I was in school in the 60s and 70s and I'm fine with higher standards. Standards are not the issue, liberal/progressive experimentation with our children in public schools is the problem.

[Tuttyd]

We've had standards, we had standards when I was in school in the 60s and 70s and I'm fine with higher standards. Standards are not the issue, liberal/progressive experimentation with our children in public schools is the problem.

So, higher standards are really a liberal/progressive experimentation. If this is the case can you explain how this works?

[speechlesstx]

So, higher standards are really a liberal/progressive experimentation. If this is the case can you explain how this works?

Failure to achieve those standards is the result of that experimentation. It's not difficult, you can raise the bar all you want but if you fail to teach the children and hold schools/teachers/administrators accountable standards are useless.

Having children sing odes to Obama instead of teaching them how to read is not good policy, but public education in America is chock full of multicultural, feminist, class-warfare and other propaganda. Ever heard of Raza Studies? Well it has no place in public education, but this liberal/progressive stranglehold on public education is committed to indoctrination instead of education. That is the problem.

P.S. Common Core and Race to the Top are designed to strengthen the federal death grip on education.

[Tuttyd]

Failure to achieve those standards is the result of that experimentation. It's not difficult, you can raise the bar all you want but if you fail to teach the children and hold schools/teachers/administrators accountable standards are useless.

Having children sing odes to Obama instead of teaching them how to read is not good policy, but public education in America is chock full of multicultural, feminist, class-warfare and other propaganda. Ever heard of Raza Studies? Well it has no place in public education, but this liberal/progressive stranglehold on public education is committed to indoctrination instead of education. That is the problem.

The failure of you education system is due to ethnocentric attitudes towards education. Both sides are guilty of this. Ethnocentrism was your strength in the past, now it is your weakness. Time for a new start. May I suggest education as a good starting point.

[talaniman]

The growing number of poor people are not all democrats, and the republican controlled enclaves of America seem to have the same problems, both with education, and local services. Ever see the places that a Walmart family have to live and raise families? Despite popular belief its not the feds who control the flow of money to a school, it's the local school boards through there state government. Teachers, fire fighters, and police are losing jobs in cash strapped cities, and that's the governor's keeping high end property taxes low while cutting municipal jobs and giving tax breaks to businesses for cheap jobs.

You wonder where the glitch in education is, look no further than states and local governments defunding education for the poor and redirecting assets and resources to those private institutions run by private for profit individual. Its been shown that it doesn't make education a better product, but it's a more expensive, and profitable one for a few well connected entrepreneurs.

I mean how do you expect to compete on a global stage when the local one is screwed up? Not a lot of hope with 31 states run by right wing governors who rather regulate a females reproductive system than create middle class jobs.