[tomder55]

How many environmentally detrimental idustries can you point to as shut down?.

If all the environmentally unfriendly industries in your nation were shutdown you would litterally come to a standstill, so let's cut to the chase, there is unintended collateral damage and just now and then a protected species get's in the way of a propellar blade.

I seem to remember the consequence of protecting a species, didn't it shut down a vivrant agricultural industry

Industry ? No... individual companies fined and shut down or fined for far less ? Many

[paraclete]

Ok local industry

[speechlesstx]

Here are a few examples of the double standard.

"We are all responsible for protecting our wildlife, even the largest of corporations," Colorado U.S. Attorney David M. Gaouette said in 2009 when announcing Exxon Mobil had pleaded guilty and would pay $600,000 for killing 85 birds in five states, including Wyoming.

The large death toll at wind farms shows how the renewable energy rush comes with its own environmental consequences, trade-offs the Obama administration is willing to make in the name of cleaner energy.

"It is the rationale that we have to get off of carbon, we have to get off of fossil fuels, that allows them to justify this," said Tom Dougherty, a long-time environmentalist who worked for nearly 20 years for the National Wildlife Federation in the West, until his retirement in 2008. "But at what cost? In this case, the cost is too high."

The Obama administration has refused to accept that cost when the fossil-fuel industry is to blame. The BP oil company was fined $100 million for killing and harming migratory birds during the 2010 Gulf oil spill. And PacifiCorp, which operates coal plants in Wyoming, paid more than $10.5 million in 2009 for electrocuting 232 eagles along power lines and at its substations.

But PacifiCorp also operates wind farms in the state, where at least 20 eagles have been found dead in recent years, according to corporate surveys submitted to the federal government and obtained by The Associated Press. They've neither been fined nor prosecuted. A spokesman for PacifiCorp, which is a subsidiary of MidAmerican Energy Holdings Co. of Des Moines, Iowa, said that's because its turbines may not be to blame.

"What it boils down to is this: If you electrocute an eagle, that is bad, but if you chop it to pieces, that is OK," said Tim Eicher, a former U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service enforcement agent based in Cody, who helped prosecute the PacifiCorp power line case.

And get this, the Obama administration has proposed 30-year permits for wind energy companies to kill a set number of bald or golden eagles.

There may not be any eagles left after that.

[talaniman]

What's your solution?

[tomder55]

Windmills do not generate enough power to make a difference. They are an environmental hazard to the avian species and an eyesore (if you don't believe me then ask the Kennedy clan ) . They should be removed just as dams are being taken down because of their negative environmental impact.

[speechlesstx]

What's your solution?

I hate the darn things. Take a cross country drive and see how they've absolutely ruined the landscape. That's another thing that baffles me about environuts, who haven't seen a bird, bug, minnow or piece of earth they didn't love. Why would you do this?

[talaniman]

windmills do not generate enough power to make a difference. They are an environmental hazard to the avian species and an eyesore (if you don't believe me then ask the Kennedy clan ) . They should be removed just as dams are being taken down because of their negative environmental impact.

Yeah, who needs Hoover Dam.

I hate the darn things. Take a cross country drive and see how they've absolutely ruined the landscape. That's another thing that baffles me about environuts, who haven't seen a bird, bug, minnow or piece of earth they didn't love. Why would you do this?

Rural people don't need power, nor do far flung suburbs.

[tomder55]

Yeah ;who needs
The Klamath River Dams
Glen Canyon Dam
The Lower Snake River Dams
Elwha River Dam

All the dams on the river in my area have been broken open and the river restored to it's natural state .
This is happening all over the country. 62 dams in the USA last year alone were removed .800 in the last 20 years . They were not replaced with new dams . You can look it up . It's a conservation movement called the River Restoration project... and it's not a bad idea.

[NeedKarma]

Considering that the US consumes the most power in the world how do you propose to generate this power?

P.S. tom is one of those environuts!

[tomder55]

Not with windmills.. not with water power.. those are all 19th century technology . I say we use Canadian oil sands . I say we use gas and oil from shale . I say we use clean coal technology . I say we develop new generations of nuclear . I say we develop methane hydrate . We have enough of the known existing resources to last over a century . More than enough time to develop the flux capacator and see if there is any future in cold fusion or dilithium chrystals .

No I'm a conservationist like Teddy Roosevelt .

[talaniman]

Trust me, unless they can solve the problems of delivering needed power, or irrigation concerns locally, they don't do it. Many of these dams were obsolete anyway and better alternatives have been found.

Now if we can just do the same with those bridges... before they fall and kill some body(S)... AND I don't mean birds, protected or not..

[speechlesstx]

Yeah, who needs Hoover Dam.



Rural people don't need power, nor do far flung suburbs.

So build them in your front yard.

[talaniman]

Not enough wind in my front yard, but Texas has a wind corridor in the western part of the state. Perry has been building them for decades there, with help from a bunch of foreign governments and companies.

Everybody knows that your neighborhood has more wind than mine, and cleaner air too.

[tomder55]

Many of these dams were obsolete anyway and better alternatives have been found.

Exactly . Dams are an obsolete method for both irrigation and for power generation .So are windmills

[talaniman]

And bridges are becoming obsolete and dangerous. They need repair, and replacing.

[tomder55]

That would be a comparable argument if there was something to replace a bridge . By me they blew the dams up and did not even bother to remove the majority of the debris.

[smoothy]

And bridges are becoming obsolete and dangerous. They need repair, and replacing.

That will teach city dwellers to swim.

Imagine the commutes into and out of Manhattan.

[speechlesstx]

Meanwhile, it's come to this...

[smoothy]

Got to love that... lets hope reports are confirmed the Military told the Islamic Terrorist over there to get stuffed. As I'm listening to the radio at work... the stories are as yet unconfirmed.

[talaniman]

that would be a comparable argument if there was something to replace a bridge . By me they blew the dams up and did not even bother to remove the majority of the debris.

Replace the old bridges with new ones.