[talaniman]

Doe this make Snowden a whistleblower, or a secret agent for who, or a traitor for profit?

[tomder55]

All the above... I'll come back later today with the open source info that is readily available . Hint.. Why did he 1st contact the Washington Compost with the info... and would've given them the scoop IF they published before the Annenburg Estate summit between the Chinese Premier and the Emperor ?

[tomder55]

So did you see that Snowden gave an exclusive interview with the South China Morning Post ?(maybe you think the South China Morning Post is not a state controlled publication ?) He told them that the US has been hacking the Chinese since 2009. When that happened ,this became more than the US datamining it's own people. It is now espionage.
Edward Snowden Tells South China Morning Post: U.S. Has Been Hacking Hong Kong And China Since 2009

According to Eli Lake ,the NSA "Q group " has been looking for Snowden since May because of theft of US secrets.
Inside the
He escaped to Hong Kong. Why Hong Kong... a place that has a long standing extradition treaty with the US ? The reason is of course because he has reasonable expectation that he will NOT be subject to extradition. So in exchange for protection (and most likely a defection) he will give the Chinese the material he stole .

The final dot is that he offered the information to the Washington Compost 1st if they would publish in a 72 hr time frame .
Snowden made cautious approach to Post reporter, said he knew the risk he?s taking - Washington Post
Why was that important to him ? Because he wanted the publication of his info to coincide with the Annenberg Manor summit between the Premier of China and the Emperor.
US-China summit fails to deliver - Columnist - New Straits Times
The President was armed with the evidence about the extent of the Chinese cyber-espionage .
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/te...anted=all&_r=0
But came away from the meeting with neither side saying much if anything about the issue.
The timing of the release cannot be a coincidence.

Yes it's greatly disturbing what he revealed as far as the extent of the domestic snooping... but Snowden is giving us a snow job. He isn't no Daniel Ellsburg wannabee. He's more like Julius Rosenberg if you ask me.

[talaniman]

We agree!

[talaniman]

How Spy Agency Contractors Have Already Abused Their Power | The Nation

Twenty House Democrats called for an investigation into the scandal, but the Republican-held chamber did little to look into the story. However, Congressman Hank Johnson did manage to briefly question NSA officials about the three defense contractors.

Scandalous enough for Darrel Issa?

[tomder55]

Firms like Palantir—a Palo Alto–based business that helps intelligence agencies analyze large sets of data—exist because of the government's post-9/11 rush to develop a “terror-detection leviathan” of high-tech companies

The leviathan is the Federal Government , not a subset intelligence gathering capability .

My signature for many months now has the quote "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? " .The English translation to that is "who will watch the watchers ? " I am shocked at how many people on both sides of the aisle defend these abuses .
To blame these abuses on the so called 'privatization ' of security is a diversion from the fact that American Intelligence has pretty much dropped the ball since the National Security Act of 1947 replaced the OSS with the CIA .

[talaniman]

Yeah just let the contractors scam the people. Why not? Everybody else is.

[tomder55]

Alger Hiss , Julius Rosenberg , Bernon F. Mitchell and William H. Martin ,Jonathan J. Pollard,Aldrich Hazen... all turn coats and traitors who came out of an intelligence system long before the use of private contractors... also Bradley Manning was not in the employ of a contractor.
Your obsessive phobia of private contractors is irrational.

[talaniman]

Its no phobia Tom, just a healthy mistrust of business motives, so try not to get distracted here.

[paraclete]

I agree with you Tal national security should not be contracted out, next you will be telling me all this survellience takes place in Bangalore

[talaniman]

Home grown terrorist and loony lone wolves are domestic, and even more a fact is that businesses mine more information than government does for marketing, profit, and gaining advantage over the competition all the time. But government is supposed to not use that data to save lives?

Sure have oversight, and strict rules of probable cause, and getting a warrant, that's been done by law enforcement any way, by state, local, and federal authorities. We can dispense with the cloak and dagger though, and accept technology as a tool with strict rules of conduct.

[excon]

Hello:

If the government comes across a plan to rob a bank, are they going to DO something about it? IF the run into a conspiracy to deliver heroine, are they going to DO something about it? What if they detect that the president is screwing Nancy Pelosi?

Are they going to IGNORE that stuff?

excon

[Wondergirl]

Did the government steal my mom's secret chicken recipe that she gave to me over the phone last week?

[cdad]

Hello:

If the government comes across a plan to rob a bank, are they gonna DO something about it? IF the run into a conspiracy to deliver heroine, are they gonna DO something about it?? What if they detect that the president is screwing Nancy Pelosi?

Are they gonna IGNORE that stuff?

excon

If they don't have a warrant to address those issues then yes they better ignore it. The government does not and can not superceed the peoples rights.

[tomder55]

Its no phobia Tom, just a healthy mistrust of business motives, so try not to get distracted here.

I would like to point out that it was NOT the private contractor that gave Snowden his high level security clearance. It was the NSA or the CIA.
Evidently ;here is the resume of a modern day James Bond.
ViralRead » Who Is Edward Snowden? Background on NSA Leaker Emerges

[talaniman]

Its safe to say we didn't see this guy coming, or going... to China to give them what he knows.

Excuse me if I don't find his motivations credible nor compare him to a cult hero, and believe he is trying to save the world. I think he broke the law, and is stirring up crap to cover his a$$ while he gets rich, and live good.

[paraclete]

Its safe to say we didn't see this guy coming, or going....................to China to give them what he knows.

.

How can he give them what they already know. The system is porous and some people don't like the way it is administered. You should thank them otherwise you remain in ignorance

[tomder55]

That of course is the correct response . The left here is using this incident as proof that private contracting is a mistake.

[paraclete]

Don't tell me we agree Tom, let me put an X on the wall

[tomder55]

With all this snooping and leaking you would think someone would reveal the Emperor's college transcripts . Even the Aussie government wants to know the intimate details of their citizen's lives .But still his college transcripts are sealed
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...fe-754860.html
Maybe Snowjob has them ,and that's why the Adm has filed a criminal complaint against him ,and has asked Hong Kong for extradition (what took them so long ?)

Meanwhile the skunk Jullian Assange has managed to charter a private jet from the Chinese company for $240,000 to wisk Snowjob to Iceland ,where he's most likely evade American authority for as long as he remained there. A commercial flight could be diverted . But a ,private jet has a bee line from China through Russian air space to Iceland ,with little chance of intercept.