[excon]

Hello:

Would race be an issue today if we didn't enslave black people? How would it be if their presence here was due to legal immigration?

excon

[smoothy]

The problem todauy has nothing to do with something that ended after the civil war... it has everything to do with people that are raised by their parents who rely on handouts to feel like they are entitled to more handouts.

While that isn't true for all.. its true for a majority... and the fact there isn't a single person alive who was a slave... not one person is alive whose parents were a slave... and nobody is alive whose grandparents were a slave.

Its way past time for them to get over something none of them ever experienced... and accept responsibility for their own lives.

I don't OWE them anything... and neither does anyone else. NO person alive was ever a slaveowner... and in fact... most of us never even had an ancestor that was ever a slave holder. And there are a HUGE percentage of us... who didn't even have ancestors here during that period.

There are a lot of blacks that cling to that who never had ancestors who were slaves either... there were a LOT who immigrated here long after slavery ended.

And even those who did... seem to have selective amnesia over the fact that it was other blacks who captured them... and sold them into slavery back then.

And in fact... many of us have Irish blood... and the Irish were treated even worse. During the early 1900's when it was common to see signs posted "INNA" meaning Irish need not apply.

[excon]

Hello smoothy:

I appreciate you're not being BLATANTLY racist. Hopefully, we can keep the discussion civil.

You should know, however, that the very definition of racism is when you ascribe certain negative tendencies to a GROUP of people. As long as you hold those positions, I don't believe a rational discussion on this topic is possible with you.

excon

[speechlesstx]

You should know, however, that the very definition of racism is when you ascribe certain negative tendencies to a GROUP of people

Similar to what liberals do to conservatives.

Racism has always been an issue and slavery is STILL a problem but personally I don't think race would be nearly the issue it is now if certain segments of society would stop seeing it where it doesn't exist.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

Maybe we should DEFINE racism so we're all starting from the same place..

I say you can TALK about racism WITHOUT it being racist.. For example, Joe Biden said the OTHER guys wants to put you in chains... Metaphorically, I AGREE with him. It's NOT a racist statement.. It's POLITICAL. It's NOTHING but political.. It's not even CLOSE to racism. Yet, you guys called him a racist for saying it...

What's up with that?

excon

[joypulv]

This is a topic for discussion only, because we will never know 'what if.'

Whether enslaved or stumbling ashore starving, the result is poverty and homelessness in a strange land. And that leads to prejudice by the people already here. Add skin color to the process and it's easy to perpetuate it. Did the Irish work harder to assimilate or did they have an easier time because they could move on up and put lace in the window and no one knew?

[smoothy]

Hello smoothy:

I appreciate you're not being BLATANTLY racist. Hopefully, we can keep the discussion civil.

You should know, however, that the very definition of racism is when you ascribe certain negative tendencies to a GROUP of people. As long as you hold those positions, I don't believe a rational discussion on this topic is possible with you.

excon

YOu are the one being racist by DEMANDING or even thinking I OWE a certain race something purely because they are of a certain race.

I owe nobody anything... I certainly owe nobody anything because they are a certain race.

Racists are those that think they are entitled to something purely because they are of a certain race.

People are entitled to what they earn and work for themselves... none of them are entitled to something more because they have a certain skin color, no matter what that skin color is.

Joe Biden... is a blabbering idiot.

[talaniman]

QUOTE by smoothy;
The problem todauy has nothing to do with something that ended after the civil war... it has everything to do with people that are raised by their parents who rely on handouts to feel like they are entitled to more handouts.

Slavery may have ended as an institution, but freedom took longer to achieve as a matter of financial and social options and opportunities, so a hand out is better than no hand up. Of course you can't see the distinction because you see masses of lazy people and refuse to acknowledge that physical chains were merely replaced with phsycological ones.

While that isn't true for all.. its true for a majority... and the fact there isn't a single person alive who was a slave... not one person is alive whose parents were a slave... and nobody is alive whose grandparents were a slave.

When slavery was ended millions of blacks were left to fend for themselves many with no knowledge of the rest of the regions were like let alone the rest of the country, or the skills to do anything but what they had been, and with the prejudices of the dominant race's segregation policies that lasted well into the 196os, we see that systematic discrimination and racism had a huge impact on not jut freed slaves but their children and descendants a well.

Of course in the minds of a true racist as yourself, none of that counts for squat and you bear no personal responsibility and can shift blame to hide from your own culpability in the system. Its okay to keep a boot on the darkies and go about your own business.

Its way past time for them to get over something none of them ever experienced... and accept responsibility for their own lives.

That's the funny part, as most have done just that despite the best efforts for years of the racist among the white race. They will never admit they have failed and minorities, not just the black minority have gained prominence through knowledge and empowerment slowly but surely. I can't blame modern racist like you from being angry about that and scared sh1tless of the obvious trends going on and I hope you accept your future assimilation into a greater wider diversity that is America.

Chill out, chances are you will be treated better than you have treated others.

I don't OWE them anything... and neither does anyone else. NO person alive was ever a slaveowner... and in fact... most of us never even had an ancestor that was ever a slave holder. And there are a HUGE percentage of us... who didn't even have ancestors here during that period.

LOL, hope you still say that after you are outnumbered and out cultured and minorities tell you racist that they owe YOU nothing.

There are a lot of blacks that cling to that who never had ancestors who were slaves either... there were a LOT who immigrated here long after slavery ended.

And you segregated and discriminated against them too, like you do any. What happen o the millions of slaves and their descendants though? Did they disappear or something? Did they not multiply like all human do? Just because you were the dominate race You feel entitled to foist your rapidly shrinking version of equality, and freedom on the rest of us and that's the true definition of racism.

And even those who did... seem to have selective amnesia over the fact that it was other blacks who captured them... and sold them into slavery back then.

How ignorant to think the African version of slavery was the same as the Euro-American one and since you have no clue look it up. Another symptom of racism, vast ignorance of your victims.

And in fact... many of us have Irish blood... and the Irish were treated even worse. During the early 1900's when it was common to see signs posted "INNA" meaning Irish need not apply.

And now you have made it? And that entitles you to spit on others because you were spit on? That makes you more a scared ignorant human that has forgotten where he came from. Also a trait of a racist.

You made the case so don't be shy about acknowledging it. We understand your fear, and fully expect a hateful diatribe of more of your rantings as rebuttal.

[smoothy]

Typical leftist drivel...

All of it excuses for a certain class to lay the blame of their own pooor decisions on others... and excuse their own laziness.

Read that right out of the DNC handbook?

I don't own a damn thing to any black who never took school serious... refuses to speak coheirant english... or dress like a civilized person...

Many of them preffer to be on welfare and complain than get off their butts and work.

And there are a lot of blacks who will say the same thing I just did. Because I've heard them say it.

The people that need to CHill are the lazy bums that think they are owed anything...

Unlike them... I actually EARNED everything I have... despite not having ANY of the free help they all have available to them. The people getting screwed today are the poor White people... who have no advocates or programs to help them.

And ANYONE that so much as THINKS a certain group NEED handouts because they are genetically inferior to be able to compete with others in school.. or in life... are the people with the problem... because every one of them have the same chances and the same capacity as every other group out there has.

It's the Liberals that believe blacks and Hispanics aren't our equals... and need handouts just to be equal. That's the rascist mindset that needs changing.

My ancestors were treated far worse by the British than any slave ever was by a slave owner... The Brits don't owe me any more than any black is owed. And that amount is zilch.. ziup, nada... niente... nothing. Because nobody living was a victim of this... and stuff that happened long before you was born? Well its time to suck it up and get over it.

Of course... they are all free to return to their ancestoral homelands and see if they would be any better off there... because in most cases... they wouldn't.

[talaniman]

Similar to what liberals do to conservatives.

Racism has always been an issue and slavery is STILL a problem but personally I don't think race would be nearly the issue it is now if certain segments of society would stop seeing it where it doesn't exist.

It would help if certain segments of society were not in denial that a lot of hate goes on and its just not from liberals. Maybe not in YOUR neighborhood, but it does exist and persists.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

Maybe we should DEFINE racism so we're all starting from the same place..

I say you can TALK about racism WITHOUT it being racist.. For example, Joe Biden said the OTHER guys wants to put you in chains... Metaphorically, I AGREE with him. It's NOT a racist statement.. It's POLITICAL. It's NOTHING but political.. It's not even CLOSE to racism. Yet, you guys called him a racist for saying it...

What's up with that?

excon

I've already corrected you on this before. Biden was an a$$ for injecting racism where it doesn't exist, for playing the race card - which was not only political but inexcusable for the VP of the United States. That's not us calling him a racist, it's Biden calling US racists. Got it?

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

That's not us calling him a racist, it's Biden calling US racists. Got it?

I DO. And, that's why I said I agree with him. Although I wasn't as succinct as Joe Biden, the underlying sentiment I had over our voter ID debates, was that what YOU were doing, is tantamount to putting black people BACK in chains.

I didn't want this thread to be "you're a racist", "no, YOU'RE a racist", "no, you're a BIGGER racist than I am"... But, it appears to have devolved into one.

There IS a feeling of blaming the victims on your side.. When we discuss drugs, you say black people don't HAVE to sell drugs. When I talk about prison, you say black people don't HAVE to break the law. When I talk about being poor, you say black people CHOOSE to be poor.

Maybe there's NO solution..

Excon

[smoothy]

If its something that happened generations before your were born... you aren't a "Vicitim". Its just a lame excuse.

[speechlesstx]

Yes, ex I remember all the discussions, and you just keep validating my theory.

[talaniman]

If its something that happened generations before your were born....you aren't a "Vicitim". Its just a lame excuse.

Most people don't have to go back generations to be a victim of unfair practice and policies as being called lazy and entitled after losing house and home because of rich folks us is blatant racism on YOUR part. Deny and feel entitled all you want but the facts don't change because you don't want to see them.

[smoothy]

Most people don't have to go back generations to be a victim of unfair practice and policies as being called lazy and entitled after losing house and home because of rich folks us is blatant racism on YOUR part. Deny and feel entitled all you want but the facts don't change because you don't want to see them.

Oh get over the smugness... if someone loses their house... its because they didn't pay for it... NOT because some evil rich person took it from them.

IF you spend more than you make... you either get a second job or reduce your spending... what is it with liberals and their entitlement mentality... where personal responsibility is a foreign language?

No "Rich " person ever stole a house off someone... a foreclosure happens when someone doesn't pay for something they bought. They signed the papers... they agreed to pay... if they don't pay.. they lose it. That's how it works.

I don't owe you and anyone else a damn thing... if you want a new car... get off your butt and earn the money to buy one... if you want a house... get off your butt and get a job to pay for it... I have NO legal.. or moral obligation to give anyone anything that is too lazy to get off their butts and work for it. If they are too lazy to get a job... then they do without.

[paraclete]

Let me answer your question from a different perspective. In my nation, Australia, slavery never existed, however there was an indigenous dark race. The behaviour of these people gives rise to very deep seated attitudes which could be viewed as racism. They think that we (people of immigrant stock) took something away from them and that we own them a living.

Racism can exist without slavery, it exists wherever one group of people are treated as inferior by another group of people or are given advantage over another group.

[Tuttyd]

And in fact...many of us have Irish blood...and the Irish were treated even worse. during the early 1900's when it was common to see signs posted "INNA" meaning Irish need not apply.

Why are you invoking a pseudo-scientific explanation?

[tomder55]

It could be argued that racism is a form of ethnocentrism ;as the concept of race is a relatively new concept ;a product of the 18th century. Slavery predates that by many Centuries. I have no doubt that legacy of slavery is a contributing factor in race relations.

Eric Holder challenged the country to have a frank and honest discussion about race. Then the Obots have demagogued the issue every chance they get ,going back to the Cambridge incident . The discussion has to go beyond finger pointing and suspicion of motives .

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

The discussion has to go beyond finger pointing and suspicion of motives

I quite agree... With the exception of smoothy, I don't believe you guys are racists. Having said that, I believe that voter ID laws WAS an attempt to suppress the black vote.. Even though I believe your hearts are pure, do you have ANY doubts about the motives of your leaders?

I'll ACCEPT your answers at face value, and entertain YOUR question. I'm really trying to understand this.. It seems that we're making headway because you grasp that our "legacy of slavery is a contributing factor in race relations." How anyone can IGNORE that is incomprehensible to me.

excon

PS> Hello smoothy,

Does my characterization of you being a racist piss you off, or do you wear it like a badge of courage? You seem to be coming out of your shell a little bit. You're not holding back on your racism. Come on, you can tell me...

Look. I still LIKE you smoothy.. I have friends who share your views.