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    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #161

    Apr 2, 2013, 02:07 PM
    I have been in China, travelled the country so I know first hand. What I didn't see is the oppression you think is taking place everywhere. Tibet might be a different case. China is an emerging giant and therefore cannot be ignored. Strong trading relationships are important and we will forge them with India too. What is it they say, keep your friends close and your enemies closer
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,325, Reputation: 10855
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    #162

    Apr 2, 2013, 02:15 PM
    One of our own members, Fr.Chuck, moved to China. He loves it.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #163

    Apr 2, 2013, 02:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    One of our own members, Fr.Chuck, moved to China. He loves it.
    Yes I've spoken with Chuck
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,490, Reputation: 2853
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    #164

    Apr 2, 2013, 07:15 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    I have been in China, travelled the country so I know first hand. What I didn't see is the oppression you think is taking place everywhere. Tibet might be a different case. China is an emerging giant and therefore cannot be ignored. Strong trading relationships are important and we will forge them with India too. What is it they say, keep your friends close and your enemies closer
    Talk about burying ones head in the sand...

    I'll bet the People of Tibet have something to say... and Taiwan.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #165

    Apr 2, 2013, 08:04 PM
    Look I have no objection to the people of Tibet and Taiwan deciding for themselves whatever China might say but you have to remember history and part of it is the defense the west made in these cases. The west did not defend Tibet and it is now part of China. The west has defended Taiwan to some extent and it remains outside of China. Any conflict over there could involve big changes in the political landscape and I could see China trading off NK for Taiwan. China has no traditional claims to NK but they do to Taiwan
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #166

    Apr 3, 2013, 03:46 AM
    I have been in China, travelled the country so I know first hand. What I didn't see is the oppression you think is taking place everywhere.
    Ask the Uyghurs
    Organs Seized From Uyghurs
    Ask the Christians
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_YU...=sharing&pli=1
    Ask the workers in Foxconn
    Riots, suicides and more in Foxconn factories - CBS News
    Ask the people who's property has been seized .
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/24/wo...hina.html?_r=0
    Ask the women who have been forced to have abortions
    Chinese woman forced to have abortion after second pregnancy - NY Daily News
    Ask Ai Weiwei ,the artist who designed the Bird's Nest stadium for the Olympics and then was beaten, prosecuted and held in secret detention for his efforts to expose China's oppression of its people.

    I could go on ;but you get the idea . I'm sure your visits to China are quite santized .
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #167

    Apr 3, 2013, 05:48 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I could go on ;but you get the idea . I'm sure your visits to China are quite santized .
    Not at all I travelled freely without minders of any kind, was searched at the border and allowed to proceed, was questioned by police and allowed to proceed, may very well have had a watcher on more than one occasion for a short time but nothing was sanitized or directed. I saw few police and even fewer military in a journey of 3,000 kilometres. There is more I could say, but I will say the chinese were very helpful and courteous

    The point is; things happen in many parts of the world and may very well happen there but you cannot take the reported incidents we see reported and extrapolate that into a nation under siege. I'm sure even the US is a peaceful place despite the thousands killed every year with guns
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #168

    Apr 3, 2013, 06:17 AM
    Clete,

    I'm more likely to believe someone who's been there than someone just surfing for links.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,490, Reputation: 2853
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    #169

    Apr 3, 2013, 06:20 AM
    Never mind the reality people AREN'T free to travel ANYWHERE they want in China any more than they are in Vietnam... you still aren't in Russia. YOu WILL be followed.. and you WILL be watched... and if you DO go certain places you WILL be stopped.

    But then... its always the left that defends them...
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,325, Reputation: 10855
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    #170

    Apr 3, 2013, 06:45 AM
    The right wing vacuum chamber doesn't allow for different ideas or complete facts. The good news is they are a shrinking minority in an ever growing progressive country.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,490, Reputation: 2853
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    #171

    Apr 3, 2013, 07:20 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    The right wing vacuum chamber doesn't allow for different ideas or complete facts. The good news is they are a shrinking minority in an ever growing progressive country.
    Yeah... right... as shown by the TOTAL lack of coverage for Obamas blunders... or ANY real criticism of anything he has ever done by the left wing run Pravda... that doesn't have the balls to just say they are the DNC propagandists... because they don't have the courage to admit it.

    The country hasn't gotten more progressive... the Progressives have become more narcicisstic and arrogant... and their control of the media to spread lies and misinformation make the old Pravda jealous.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,325, Reputation: 10855
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    #172

    Apr 3, 2013, 07:32 AM
    Nice propaganda, from inside the vacuum.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #173

    Apr 3, 2013, 03:59 PM
    Well March has come and gone and what are we left with. NK seems to be the continuing theme but all else is resolved
    The sequester grinds on
    Governments have not fallen
    The stock market has not fallen
    The catholics are pondering the actions of their new leader
    The rhetoric flows in so many ways
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #174

    Apr 3, 2013, 04:26 PM
    The sequester grinds on... and the Obots learned that you can threaten to furlough meat inspectors ;but if they did ,they would be negligent... So the Prez and Veep scheduled more vacation time ;and Zero announced today he'd take a 5% hair cut.

    The NORKS have ramped it up beyond the normal Kim blowing out their a$$ rhetoric
    There is no place to put investment money except the stock market bubble .

    Pope Francis is interesting . Don't think he will tinker with doctrine .


    Cannibals NY have gone back to being just plain corrupt crooks . First we learn that we have been voted the least free state in the union ;then we learn that NYC Tamney Hall Dems want to make NYC the most politically corrupt city . To wrest that from Chi-town... now that would be an achievement .
    N.Y. politicians arrested in alleged mayoral race bribe scheme | Reuters
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #175

    Apr 3, 2013, 04:50 PM
    Yes interesting that BO is showing his solidarity with those affected by the sequester, I would be more impressed if he took an unpaid furlough, a month would be appropriate.

    If I were over there Tom I think I would be putting my investment money in a kerosene tin in the back yard but everything is not that bad, I managed to sell some shares at a profit during March and bought myself a new car so having done my bit for the economy I continue to contemplate what to do with those other holdings in loss
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,325, Reputation: 10855
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    #176

    Apr 3, 2013, 06:19 PM
    Everyone here isn't suffering Clete, some are doing very well.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #177

    Apr 3, 2013, 06:22 PM
    Yes Tal I'm sure the other 47% are, as always
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,490, Reputation: 2853
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    #178

    Apr 3, 2013, 07:19 PM
    Only the Democrats that are the recipients of Owebamas reckless spending are doing well... the rest of us who are actually paying those bills are doing worse.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #179

    Apr 3, 2013, 08:32 PM
    Are you finding out how the other half lives smoothy? I doubt it. Life has been tough we have all had to change what we do in the last few years so don't expect me to have sympathy for fat cats

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