[Wondergirl]

The militias at the time were to mobilize against a tyrannical government ;not to serve it.

And we have no militia in this country -- unless you mean the NRA members. The "tyrannical government" will have tanks and drones and lots of bombs and even nuclear warheads at the ready. Bring on your blunderbusses (bunderbussi?).

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

Ok, then. Let the STATE hire the militia, build an armory, and put the guns there.

But, you don't get to pick the militia.. That sounds like Syria or Libya. Or some other banana republic.

excon

PS> Let's be CLEAR. The people who you want to SHOOT are our sons and daughters who have JOINED the National Guard. You want to SHOOT your local cops. That IS who you're arming yourself against, isn't it?

[talaniman]

Dog gonnit TOM, this ain't 1776! The founders did the best they could with what they had, and we have to do the best we can with what we have NOW.

We don't need a gun to change the government, we turned bullets into ballots long ago. Well some of us did. So take off that silly old hat you have been wearing for more than two hundred years and comb that gray away and get you a hoodie.

[tomder55]

Hello again, tom:

Ok, then. Let the STATE hire the militia, build an armory, and put the guns there.

But, you don't get to pick the militia.. That sounds like Syria or Libya. Or some other banana republic.

excon

PS> Let's be CLEAR. The people who you wanna SHOOT are our sons and daughters who have JOINED the National Guard. You wanna SHOOT your local cops. That IS who you're arming yourself against, isn't it?

I don't want to shoot anyone. But if our sons and daughters became the instruments of a tyranny then yes I would have no choice but to defend myself . You would too .

[Wondergirl]

I don't want to shoot anyone. But if our sons and daughters became the instruments of a tyranny then yes I would have no choice but to defend myself . You would too .

Our police are also our sons and daughters and aunts and uncles and moms and dads. And I cannot imagine all (okay, most!) of them in the military or in law enforcement jumping on a tyrannical government's bandwagon.

[tomder55]

Dog gonnit TOM, this ain't 1776! The founders did the best they could with what they had, and we have to do the best we can with what we have NOW.

We don't need a gun to change the government, we turned bullets into ballots long ago. Well some of us did. So take off that silly old hat you have been wearing for more than two hundred years and comb that gray away and get you a hoodie.

Yeah maybe I'll get one of those detection proof hoodies
Avoid snooping UAVs with a Stealth Wear hoodie

I was wearing hoodies before they became popular. Now that they are popular ,they are over priced .

[talaniman]

LOL, we agree. So are the gym shoes. The free market at work.

[tomder55]

I'll just have to pioneer a new fashion trend.

[talaniman]

Tried that, they called me a bum! Bought me new clothes. Made me wear them. Made me shave. My name is the same but everything looks different. I long for the good old days.

[paraclete]

These are the good old days Tal things will never be as good as they are now

[talaniman]

I think better days lie ahead, but sometimes memories of past happiness sneak into your thoughts

[bigwig]

And we have no militia in this country -- unless you mean the NRA members. The "tyrannical government" will have tanks and drones and lots of bombs and even nuclear warheads at the ready. Bring on your blunderbusses (bunderbussi?).

That hurt wondergirl. All were fighting for is the right to bear arms. It has gotten far to political, even for me. A guy that just wants to hunt and own a gun and hunt things. Maybe I should spend the rest of my days making bird houses and peace signs.

[talaniman]

Never be afraid of having the debate, as crazy as it can get, and its important you state your case and to be honest it makes a lot of sense. All my friends are hunters, and respect the woods and the tools they use to hunt. Bambi may be cute but can be as dangerous as any animal. I would sure hate to be in a situation where one more shot is the difference between life and death and you are alone in the wilderness. Like I say ranchers/farmers/hunter should have whatever they need to survive.

[paraclete]

That hurt wondergirl. All were fighting for is the right to bear arms. It has gotten far to political, even for me. A guy that just wants to hunt and own a gun and hunt things. Maybe I should spend the rest of my days making bird houses and peace signs.

I think wondergirl is being realistic, there are two forces in the gun debate, the NRA and the government and to coin an old cliché "It's nearing High Noon". No one is worried about your hunting but they are worried about those who hunt things other than game. This is about big issues now, not the backwoods issues, this is about violence, death, lawlessness

[tomder55]

Our police are also our sons and daughters and aunts and uncles and moms and dads. And I cannot imagine all (okay, most!) of them in the military or in law enforcement jumping on a tyrannical government's bandwagon.

Then of course there would be no reason to exercise that aspect of the 2nd amendment right . But ;as everyone here likes to remind me.. things today were unthinkable in the past. You can't envision a time where a great freedom loving people gave in to tyranny... even embracing it ? Just look at the history of Europe in the last 200 years. There are enough examples there to keep you busy .

[paraclete]

Tom a great freedom loving people gave into the tyanny of the gun, and without a wimper. Tyranny comes in many forms and not all of it is centred on the Potamac

[Wondergirl]

You can't envision a time where a great freedom loving people gave in to tyranny ...even embracing it ? Just look at the history of Europe in the last 200 years. There are enough examples there to keep you busy .

But they didn't have the kind of government we do with its checks and balances and with voting system we have. And each president can undo what the previous one did.

[tomder55]

But they didn't have the kind of government we do with its checks and balances and with voting system we have. And each president can undo what the previous one did.

Yes ;so far it hasn't been an issue . What does that mean though ? The French thought they were forging a free loving nation... then they willing surrendered all that to an Emperor . Economic forces in the 1930s was enough to end democracies in more than one nation.
You don't see that happening here ? Just ask the Japanese Americans who were alive in 1942 .

[Wondergirl]

yes ;so far it hasn't been an issue . What does that mean though ? The French thought they were forging a free loving nation ... then they willing surrendered all that to an Emperor . Economic forces in the 1930s was enough to end democracies in more than one nation.
You don't see that happening here ? Just ask the Japanese Americans who were alive in 1942 .

We're improving, not regressing and going back to redo old mistakes. We've learned since 1942. The American public is a lot smarter now than it was and communicates a lot better than it did in 1942.

[tomder55]

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.