[talaniman]

I have always believed the government should be flexible enough to take action in a crisis, no matter what it is, and admire this president for taking on the debts of his predecessor and addressing the problem. There was no quick fix. More action still needed.

[paraclete]

Yes swift action to abolish all discetionary spending until the budget is brought into surplus.

[talaniman]

2012 Discretionary Spending Breakdown | pgpf.org

DATA, DATA,more DATA!

[tomder55]

Yes swift action to abolish all discetionary spending until the budget is brought into surplus.

Unfortunately that won't do the trick . Entitlements and debt service is the real issue . But haircuts on discretionary spending is a good start

[talaniman]

And defense spending reductions, and raising the wage cap on SS taxes.

[tomder55]

you think SS is welfare It isn't... it isn't a benefit either ;its earned income! Not only did we contribute to Social Security insurance , but our employers did too.

It totaled 15% of our income before taxes .

If you averaged $30,000 per year over your working life, that's close to $180,000 invested in Social Security. If you calculate the future value of your monthly investment in social security ($375/month, including both your and your employer's contributions) at a meager 1% interest rate compounded monthly, after 40 years of working you'd have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved!
Upon retirement, if you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $39,318 per year, or $3,277 per month. That's almost three times more than today's average Social Security benefit of $1,230 per month.
And your retirement fund would last more than 33 years (until you're 98 if you retire at age 65)! I can only imagine how much better most average income people could live in retirement if our government had just invested our money in low risk interest-earning accounts.

Instead, we were robbed ,and the government pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madoff ever did.

[paraclete]

And defense spending reductions, and raising the wage cap on SS taxes.

Yes that debt service is a real whammy particularly as your credit rating keeps dropping, better not to have the debt. So you start with no wars that weren't started by someoneelse and putting a threshold on SS, Medicare and Medicade, as well as discontinuing money wasting activities, such as War on terror, War on Drugs, EPA, Renewable Energy, Agricultural subsidies and staples

The problem with SS isn't the people who earn and contribute but those who don't

[tomder55]

The problem with SS isn't the people who earn and contribute but those who don't

Again... if SS is a welfare program then it was fraudulently sold to the American people.

[paraclete]

again.... if SS is a welfare program then it was fraudulently sold to the American people.

Tom you should know things change over time, what was a great idea in the 1930's get's changed. We used to have something called a social security contribution, must have got the idea from you, but it got rolled into the general tax rate and now everyone is entitled. I expect that something similar has effectively happened over there. We had a politician called Keating who decided to solve the problem, he sold the workers a real bill of goods, superannuation as a tradeoff for wage increases, I wonder where he got the idea, anyway contribution is now 12% in a designated account. No work, no pension

[tomder55]

I checked the history... it was a fraud from the get go. I'm familiar with superannuation.. If the Dems get their way ;they plan to seize our private 401-K plans and convert them to government managed superannuation accounts.

[NeedKarma]

If the Dems get their way ;they plan to seize our private 401-K plans and convert them to government managed superannuation accounts.

Any proof of this? It's quite an allegation.

[tomder55]

Fiscal Cliff: Why Congress Might Have to Mess with the 401(k) | TIME.com

[talaniman]

The repubs only science is profit. By any means necessary. That's why Wall Street manages your 401k.

[NeedKarma]

Did you read the article? It has nothing to do with "seizing" your 401(k) savings - it has to so with the eliminating the deduction.

[speechlesstx]

The repubs only science is profit. By any means neccesary. Thats why Wall Street manages your 401k.

A guy on the other side of town manages my retirement. What, you don't let the experts do it?

[tomder55]

Did you read the article? It has nothing to do with "seizing" your 401(k) savings - it has to so with the eliminating the deduction.

It could eliminate the deduction altogether or just for top earners, further restrict the amount that is deductible (currently $17,500; for those over 50, $23,000), start taxing retirement savings growth, or take back the part that has grown tax-free.

I know what I'm talking about . The Dems held hearings on this in 2008 and it has been on the backburner since... but never far from their minds. What part of "take back " don't you understand ? It was NEVER theirs to begin with ;so in effect ,the plan is to seize. There are other links that detail the plan originally floated by Teresa Ghilarducci in Congressional hearings in 2008.She is a professor at the New School of Social Research ,and author of 'When I'm Sixty-Four:The Plot against Pensions and the Plan to Save Them'.

In place of 401-K s , she would transfer the accounts into government created "guaranteed retirement accounts"(GRA) . The government would deposit $600 every year into the GRAs. Each worker would also have a mandatory contribution of 5 percent of pay into the accounts .The government would allow a 3 % return .

[NeedKarma]

take back the part that has grown tax-free

Do you really think that would happen? That would be political suicide. Even calculating that would be a PITA. I find it hard to believe that was brought up by anyone.

Oh and.. FactCheck.org : IRAs, 401(k)s and You

Teresa Ghilarducci, Nov. 18: It is utterly ridiculous [to suppose] that I advocate seizing 401k assets.

Ghilarducci has long proposed limiting tax deductions for money put into 401(k) and similar retirement accounts and setting up a new type of account instead.

Ghilarducci: If people put money into 401(k)s they could keep it there, and taxes would continue to be deferred until withdrawn. It is unthinkable that Congress would take a tax break away for activities already undertaken.

[talaniman]

As opposed to state goverments raising your pension contributions (Wisconsin) or employers that file bankruptcy and wipe ALL your loot out (Hostess)? Or the government being shut down and tanking Wall Street (debt ceiling)?

What part of the capitalist business model being BROKEN is it we are not understanding? All those financial products we keep inventing is subject to change or failure.

[speechlesstx]

As opposed to state goverments raising your pension contributions (Wisconsin) or employers that file bankrupcy and wipe ALL your loot out (Hostess)? Or the government being shut down and tanking Wall Street (debt ceiling)?

What part of the capitalist business model being BROKEN is it we are not understanding? All those financial products we keep inventing is subject to change or failure.

Yet states like Texas, Indiana and Florida are going into the year with a budget surplus and strong economies. Something must be working right.

[tomder55]

I know what she advocates .She can spin it anyway she wants when confronted . Of course she doesn't call it 'seizing '... duh .
This is all one needs to seriously object to this plan... When I die ;the 401-K becomes part of my kid's inheritance. When one dies under her plan ;the benefit ceases.