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cbag2000 · Dec 4, 2012, 07:03 PM

I have a finished basement with a bathroom tied into an ejector pit. My ejector pit is in an open mechanical room with a furnace and hot water heater. Each time we have a fire in living room above we smell a sewage smell in the basement and coming from our cold air return vents. We have checked all vent pipes coming from the pit as it has 2 separate vents. Everything seems to be sealed as well as we have caulked the pit lid and all penetrations. We have tried everything to figure it out with no luck. It seems like it might be pressure related, but we can.t figure out where it would be coming from with everything being sealed.

speedball1 · Dec 5, 2012, 10:09 AM

We have checked all vent pipes coming from the pit as it has 2 separate vents

There should be a fixture vent and as pit vent. I'm interested in the pit vent what does it connect to? Back to you, Tom

cbag2000 · Dec 5, 2012, 08:33 PM

Tom,

The pit vent ties into another vent that goes directly into the concrete right next to the pit, also for the pit and presumably to the exterior. This line of the 2 vents tied together goes overhead into the other part of our basement and then up eventually to the roof and out.

I had a picture for it, but unfortunately I cannot figure out how to tie it to this thread. If you have any insight I will get it on here for you to check out. Thanks. Chad

speedball1 · Dec 6, 2012, 06:47 AM

The pit vent ties into another vent

That's a problem right there. The pit vent MUST be a dedicated vent with no connection back to the house venting system.

This line of the 2 vents tied together

What line of 2" vents? Are you saying that the fixture and the pit vent are connected? I need to know!

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How do I add pictures and other file types to my post?
A. "Attach" files (including pictures) from your computer. This method puts the attached file below the text of the post.
Click on an Ask or Answer button to ask or answer a question
Compose your question or answer in the window.
Under the window where you composed your question or answer is a section called Additional Options.
Click on the Manage Attachments button: a pop-up dialog will open. NOTE: The Manage Attachments dialog lists the maximum sizes of the various types of files that may be attached.
Click the Browse button to navigate to the image on your computer and double click the file on your computer: this will return you to the dialog window.
Click the Upload button.
Click the link to close the dialog window OR repeat numbers 5 & 6 to attach another image.
B. "Embed" image(s) from the internet. This method inserts an image wherever you wish within the text of your post.
Click the Insert Image icon above the posting window: A pop-up asking for the URL will open.
Enter the URL of the image in the field then click the OK button.
Back to you, Tom

cbag2000 · Dec 6, 2012, 09:31 AM

Tom,

I have attached an image of the system for your reference. You will see the (2) each vent lines (1 coming from the pit and the other directly from the concrete slab). As you see these 2 tie together and then run out. These are on their own individual waste vent line separate from the main house line.

Thanks,
Chad

speedball1 · Dec 6, 2012, 11:59 AM

I got a little dizzy looking at your hookup. Your post is a little confusing also. On the one hand you say,

As you see these 2 tie together and then run out.

and then you tell me,

These are on their own individual waste vent line

Please explain,
You also have some sort of convoluted cleanout installed. Is that a 3" cross bushed down to accept the pit drain, (why did you increase to 3" coming off from it?) and now you've lost me completely. If that's the fixture vent raising out of the slab then what's it doing tied back to then pit discharge line? What am I missing here? Back to you, Tom

cbag2000 · Dec 6, 2012, 01:38 PM

Tom,

Hopefully this helps..? The main "clean out" you are seeing has nothing to do with the pit other than the pit discharge ties into this. This "clean out" is for the main waste line of our home leading out to the municipal sewer. I have identified the vent pipes (in blue).

speedball1 · Dec 6, 2012, 04:37 PM

It's not the pit vent that interests me. Why is the fixture vent connected to the pit vent? Also,you need to install a check valve on the pit discharge line next to the pit so that when them pump stops all then crap in the line doesn't flow back into the pit.
I just opened your attachment. I'll get back in the morning. Have a great evening. Tom Cheers, Tom

massplumber2008 · Dec 6, 2012, 06:08 PM

The check valve is installed on the discharge pipe, Tom, so he's all set there.

Like you, I think the 2nd vent may be a problem, or it may even be the culprit causing the issue!

Here, if a home is sealed up so tight (as was common in the 80s) that it doesn't "breath properly" you can actually have a negative pressure situation and that could cause the fireplace to create a draw on the home and this could create a situation where the home draws on the plumbing system. Since the fixture vent is connected to the ejector pit vent this would create a smelly condition, for sure. Here, if the fixture vent wasn't connected to the ejector vent the issue would still be present, but it probably wouldn't be quite as smelly/awful!

At a minimum, I would disconnect the fixture vent from the sewage ejector vent... maybe install a mechanical vent (called an AAV) on the fixture vent for now. Then, I'd open a window whenever you light a fire... see if that allows some air into the home and helps prevent the "negative pressure" issue.

At a maximum, I would do other things... ;) However, I would start with these basics and see if they make a difference, OK?

Your thoughts, Tom?

Mark

speedball1 · Dec 7, 2012, 11:26 AM

That line coming out of the slab vents the fixtures? And the two vents are connected? Whoever told you that was a good move?
At the same time your fixtures are attempting to pull in outside air for venting the pit vent's expelling sewer gas and you have them both tied together, The pit vent should be a dedicated vent going out the roof b y itself, Nark said it best,

At a minimum, I would disconnect the fixture vent from the sewage ejector vent... maybe install a mechanical vent (called an AAV) on the fixture vent

Also, What's the fixture vent doing coming out of the slab. Going from the fixtures to under the slab sets up an trap situation. All codes mandate pitching a vent back to the fixture that it's venting this is to prevent the exact setup that you've installed. When this under slab trap fill up with water, and in time it will) then your fixtures will be unvented, There's a lot of issues with this installation that I don't understand,

cbag2000 · Dec 7, 2012, 01:57 PM

Thanks guys. I will see what I can do. Probably have to bring in a plumber in the physical. I am the homeowner, not the plumber (I had nothing to do with the installation). The house is only 10 years old and passed code with this installation in a residential area where they are very particular with permitting and code regulation.

speedball1 · Dec 7, 2012, 02:22 PM

Can you furnish any details about the fixture vent, This will be the first time I ever saw a vent with a built in trap that passed inspection. Can you tell me where the line gos after it leaves the fixture. Thanks for the attachment explaining the different lines. It was very helpful. Bye the way what's the brand name of your ejector system? Back to you. Tom

massplumber2008 · Dec 7, 2012, 05:16 PM

Just guessing now, but I'm guessing that the 2" fixture vent (not the vent from the ejector) is a vent for the toilet and may be venting the shower (or tub) if wet venting is allowed in the area. The sink must be far enough away that its vent isn't incorporated into the toilet vent, but when I see a 2" vent coming out of the ground that way I'm pretty sure it vents a toilet (only fixture requiring a 2" vent).

With that guess, I think you simply need to cut the vent and add a mechanical vent (which may need to be changed later depending on codes in your area) and then cap the connection off at the ejector vent and then open a window an inch or so as I suggested earlier and try this out... don't need a plumber for that.. ;)

All you need to do is cut the vent out in the middle as shown below... see image.

Mark

speedball1 · Dec 8, 2012, 08:05 AM

Mark, You don't think it's unusual to see a fixture vent coming out of the slab? It's a first for me. Fixture vents go up to the roof. They don't go down in the slab because when they do they have to come up in some spot and when the come up what they leave under the slab is called a trap. In time rain water will come back down the vent and collect under the slab.
By separating the two vents and adding a AAV you've prevented that from happening and most likely solved the problem but I think that vent raising out of the slab was bad plumbing and I just gave you my reasons for thinking that way. Or did I miss something here? Your thoughts? PS, I t5hink you gave a great solution.

massplumber2008 · Dec 8, 2012, 09:00 AM

I have to figure that it is a vent for some fixture... toilet, floor drain, etc. and if the vent rolls above the centerline of the drain line it serves and then runs up and out of the slab as shown then the vent isn't trapped.

Unusual place for a vent, for sure, but could be that the ejector was installed at a later date and they just connected the ejector vent into the fixture vent... maybe?

Anyway, again, lots to guess at, but still think this "extra vent" going into slab is a possible cause to the problems. If we knew the layout of the fixtures in the bathroom and where they are in relation to these vents we could tell more, for sure!

Mark

speedball1 · Dec 8, 2012, 09:20 AM

if the vent rolls above the centerline of the drain line

That's a mighty big "if". I, too, would like to know the fixture and if there are two fixture vents. One from the lav that wee don't know about, But I Think you came up with a great solution./ Tom

ballengerb1 · Dec 8, 2012, 09:54 AM

Do you have a radom mitigation system? I am curious about the single PVC pipe going into the floor to the left of the pit.

speedball1 · Dec 8, 2012, 12:42 PM

Hey Bob,
Go back and red the posts. That pipe coming out of the floor is the fixture vent, That's what I've been complaining about, It's simply not normal for a vent to come up from the slab. Cheers, Tom

cbag2000 · Dec 10, 2012, 09:03 PM

Fellas. I sincerely thank you for your wealth of knowledge. The pipe coming out of the floor is for the venting of a floor drain right next to my furnace (5' from the ejector pit). My water softener, furnace and condensate drain into this drain which then drains into the ejector pit. The bathroom is about 20' from the ejector pit on the other side of the basement. It just has a toilet and sink which both drain into the ejector pit. Their vent ties into the ejector pit vent above the ceiling just outside the mechanical room and then up and out of the house (2 story). Even today my wife mentioned just going down into our basement she smelled a pretty strong smell without any fire. At a loss now that we are smelling it even without the fire going.

massplumber2008 · Dec 11, 2012, 05:39 AM

I don't like that arrangement... floor drain vent should connect into the plumbing vents... not the ejector vent.

With that being said, either the ejector pit vent is clogged/blocked OR you need to check that the floor drain is kept wetted at all times. It seems very likey to me that the floor drain has evaporated and is allowing sewer gasses from the ejector pit into the home OR the floor drain is getting sucked dry 'cause the ejector pit vent is clogged as I mentioned!

That's my thoughts...

Mark