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tomder55 · Nov 19, 2012, 06:23 AM

They should have established the jewish homeland in northern Australia, we were willing and there was no population that was going to get its knickers in a knot.

Who else do you want to relocate out of their historic homeland ?

I say flatten Gaza, it is the only answer, force the refugees over the border into Egypt and let someoneelse have the problem. In fact push them right back to Suez

Is that your 'Final Solution' ?

paraclete · Nov 19, 2012, 01:44 PM

No solution is final Tom you know that, but until the people of Gaza learn to play nice, Israel will not treat them like good neighbours. You and I both know that the problem there as in other places is radical islam, but the population support Hamas and its terror campaign. It was good enough for the US to invade Afghanistan to take on radical islam with the intention to anniliate Al Qaeda, why should Israel not anniliate Hamas

paraclete · Nov 21, 2012, 05:39 AM

Haven't seen any comments about a suicide bomber in Tel Aviv, it seems it is convenient to look the other way and worry about what BO had for breakfast

tomder55 · Nov 21, 2012, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

no solution is final Tom you know that, but until the people of Gaza learn to play nice, Israel will not treat them like good neighbours. You and I both know that the problem there as in other places is radical islam, but the population support Hamas and its terror campaign. It was good enough for the US to invade Afghanistan to take on radical islam with the intention to anniliate Al Qaeda, why should Israel not anniliate Hamas

I have no problem with that . However the other faction in Gaza that needs to be dealt with is the Iran controlled Islamic Jihad . Any hudna negotiated will be violated by them .

paraclete · Nov 21, 2012, 06:00 AM

They all have to go Tom, we both know that, but the population is with them in the same way the germans were with the Nazi in Germany. The population will have to be dehamasified and that means deislamised, not much chance of that

tomder55 · Nov 21, 2012, 06:31 AM

My read on this is that even though the Israelis have been pummeling them ;the Islamists are the big winner in this battle.
From a diplomatic view ; delegations from Egypt, Turkey and Iraq have traveled to Gaza City in sympathy.That would've never happened pre-Arab Spring.Mohammed Morsi is seen as a peacemaker and a legitimate ruler of a major Arab nation.Hamas gains legitimacy as the rulers in Gaza with these visits,and even the possibility of the US Sec State leaving a calling card. Meanwhile a new front was opened as you point out with a suicide/homicide bombing .

Hamas has launched it's long range Fajr-5s toward Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, and lived to talk about it. They will be permitted to restock through Sinai and await for marching orders from Tehran. Tehran can turn on and off its provocation at will and on it's time table.
When push comes to shove ;the Israelis cannot deploy the IAF on Iran if they are needed to have air superiority on their northern (Hezbollah) and southern (Hamas ) borders.

excon · Nov 21, 2012, 06:45 AM

Hello again,

dehamasified and that means deislamised, not much chance of that

What they REALLY need is to be de-OCCUPIED, and that may take care of the rest.. But, you're right. There's not much chance of that.

Excon

speechlesstx · Nov 21, 2012, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

What they REALLY need is to be de-OCCUPIED, and that may take care of the rest.. But, you're right. There's not much chance of that.

excon

Ah, so you agree with Hamas that the Jews must all go?

tomder55 · Nov 21, 2012, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

What they REALLY need is to be de-OCCUPIED, and that may take care of the rest.. But, you're right. There's not much chance of that.

Excon

“It cannot be argued that Gaza is occupied. Israel left Gaza willingly (during the disengagement in 2005 –ed.), yet they target our children as they are leaving for school.

Peres: There is No 'Occupation' in Gaza - Middle East - News - Israel National News

excon · Nov 21, 2012, 08:14 AM

Hello again,

While it's true, the Israeli's aren't physically IN Gaza, they control every aspect of life in Gaza just as if they actually occupied it.

I don't know what the correct term for it is. The Jews should be pretty familiar with it, though. It's pretty close to what the ghetto in Warsaw was like. What would YOU call it? They're certainly not FREE.

Fortunately, I have a broader view of history than you guys do.. After all, you can't remember further than four years ago. I can.

excon

tomder55 · Nov 21, 2012, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

While it's true, the Israeli's aren't physically IN Gaza, they control every aspect of life in Gaza just as if they actually occupied it.

I dunno what the correct term for it is. The Jews should be pretty familiar with it, though. It's pretty close to what the ghetto in Warsaw was like. What would YOU call it? They're certainly not FREE.

Fortunately, I have a broader view of history than you guys do.. After all, you can't remember further than four years ago. I can.

excon

So they permit in all humanitarian supplies and supplies that can be used to make a civil society in Gaza . But they don't permit in armaments that get aimed at Israeli civilians... and you compare it to Warsaw ? And you consider that a broader view of history ? I call it a warped ,cynical, and moral relativist view.

speechlesstx · Nov 21, 2012, 08:34 AM

Hamas controls their lives, not Israel. Israel does more for Palestinians than their own leaders, they send 100 plus trucks of aid a day into Gaza and it's Hamas rockets that are holding up that aid now. Israel gives them food, supplies and medical care and get rockets in return. It isn't Israel's fault they can't take care of themselves, Arabs in Israel have it much better.

excon · Nov 21, 2012, 08:40 AM

Hello again,

So, they're treated wonderfully, huh? Tell me about the airport where they can get a flight OUT... Oh, that's right. They CAN'T leave. They're PRISONERS.

excon

speechlesstx · Nov 21, 2012, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

So, they're treated wonderfully, huh? Tell me about the airport where they can get a flight OUT... Oh, that's right. They CAN'T leave. They're PRISONERS.

excon

So Israel should rebuild their airport and buy them planes? What is it you don't get about these people choosing their fate? It was that good ol' boy Yasser Arafat that chose Gaza as their HQ you know.

P.S. That's a mighty big beach they have, ever heard of a boat? They can also make a short trip over to El Arish International Airport to get away.

excon · Nov 21, 2012, 09:08 AM

Hello again, Steve:

That's a mighty big beach they have, ever heard of a boat? They can also make a short trip over to El Arish International Airport to get away.

Well, if I've miscast what the Israeli's are doing as an occupation, I CERTAINLY know they're blockaded. So, no boats. And, no leaving either. When I said they're PRISONERS, I wasn't lying...

So, you think they stay to get bombed by CHOICE, huh? I'm not surprised that you're so ill informed. You probably couldn't believe what you do, if you were informed.

Once upon a time the Israeli's were the underdogs. I LOVE underdogs... But, they AIN'T today. The Gazans are.

Excon

speechlesstx · Nov 21, 2012, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

Well, if I've miscast what the Israeli's are doing as an occupation, I CERTAINLY know they're blockaded. So, no boats. And, no leaving either. When I said they're PRISONERS, I wasn't lying...

So, you think they stay to get bombed by CHOICE, huh? I'm not surprised that you're so ill informed. You probably couldn't believe what you do, if you were informed.

Once upon a time the Israeli's were the underdogs. I LOVE underdogs... But, they AIN'T today. The Gazans are.

excon

Try this, the Palestinians elected Hamas as their leaders. Hamas chooses to put rockets in schools, which in any other world would be a war crime. Hamas chooses to have one goal, the elimination of Israel. Hamas chooses to fire rockets at the hand that feeds them.And you're surprised Israel would get fed up?

But, your underdog response is predictable. Although in my world one free and democratic state surrounded by enemies that aim for their total destruction still makes Israel the underdog.

P.S. I guess you missed that airport link, it's primarily used by Gazans. They can and do get out.

tomder55 · Nov 21, 2012, 10:46 AM

The Rafah border crossing is open for civilian movement in and out of Gaza.

talaniman · Nov 21, 2012, 12:46 PM

It called segregation, the oldest form of keeping undeirable from mixing with the desired population. From the Great Wall of China, to the nazis, to the great fence between Mexico and the US.

Yeah they have a wall in Britain too. People tend to run like hell when the shooting starts, and those who ain't shooting hate the ones that run from it. People hate immigrants, epecially poor ones, epecially poor countries that have their own poor to worry about.

Its an age old question when one small faction has power over whole populations, and they have the guns to back up whatever they want. Hamas is but the latest example of the few having an effect on the many even though they were ELECTED!

For whatever reason or excuse Israel has successfully isolated and segregated Gaza, as they have expanded their own boundaries. They don't have to cut a deal, or reach a solution, becaue history has made it acceptable to keep undesirable out, and call them names, and keep them poor.

Imagine if Gaza was a rich successful independent state. You think Israel could keep expanding? I don't think so.

The Rafah border crossing is open for civilian movement in and out of Gaza.

Gaza - Open-Egypt Crossing Border a Critical Point of Conflict -- VosIzNeias.com

A major obstacle to an open crossing at Gaza's primary link to the outside world could be Egypt, which fears that easing the restrictions might destabilize the border region and anger its Western allies.

In a sign of Egypt's ambivalence over the crossing, the country's terminal is a rundown, antiquated hall with broken chairs and a single computer to register travelers.

Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas' prime minister in Gaza, earlier this week urged Egypt to fling open the border crossing.

So much for free and easy coming and going.

speechlesstx · Nov 21, 2012, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

It called segregation, the oldest form of keeping undeirable from mixing with the desired population.

And the ultimate segregation would be the stated objective of Hamas, to eliminate Israel. There is no interest in a two-state solution with these people, only a one-state solution. Is there something you don't get about that?

For whatever reason or excuse Israel has successfully isolated and segregated Gaza,

Um, see above. Would you want to live with your wife if her stated objective was to eliminate you and she kept firing rockets at you until she succeeds?

So much for free and easy coming and going.

So it's Israel's fault that Egypt keeps them out, too? You guys make no sense.

talaniman · Nov 21, 2012, 01:26 PM

QUOTE by speechlesstx;
And the ultimate segregation would be the stated objective of Hamas, to eliminate Israel. There is no interest in a two-state solution with these people, only a one-state solution. Is there something you don't get about that?

The cowards called Hamas are a small groups with big guns that hide among the people they also terrorize. Target THEM not the vast majority of poor folks.

Um, see above. Would you want to live with your wife if her stated objective was to eliminate you and she kept firing rockets at you until she succeeds?

Israel and Gaza are NOT married! That a poor analogy. The Hatfield and McCoys
Is more accurate.

So it's Israel's fault that Egypt keeps them out, too? You guys make no sense

.

I never said, wrote, or implied that it was Israel's fault the border was closed. Its not implied in the link either. You assumed wrong.