[ELTINADR]

My wife and I have been together for seven years. This question is really about her, and what I can do to help. My wife has always had issues with sex being "dirty". Over the years its been better and worse. Ive tried to help in every way I can think of, some of it no doubt in my dumb blundering male way. Recently (2 years or so) its been much worse. We did just have children so I expected sex drive to decrease, but I did not expect an increase in the icky perception. Here are some basics.

She can an does orgasm very regularly during intercourse.

She is embarrassed of sexuality, and we have devolved into one position with lights off (not always that way).

She has been embarrassed about sexualtiy way before me (was married before and had a couple of sexual partners total) so its not just with me. I understand that it was worse with first hubby as he was not understanding.

Tried a counseler, but they only want to deal with our relationship, not the underlying sexuality issues. The focus from the counselor we tried was to get me to accept a limited sex life. This is not something my wife or I want, and it did not help her sexual idenity, just decreased the tension.

We've tried lots of sex, it sort of helped, we've tried no sex, things just got worse, the less I asked, the less she wanted. At one point we were down to once every 2 months, but she was having regular sex dreams, so its not like the hormones were not there.

We both think there is some mental block. We have not been able to find a good counselor, and at ths point I am becoming concerned. I have had increasing resentment, which I try not to show. When we have talked I ask what does she want out of her sexuality (ie: what is your ideal sexuality level) and she feels uncomfortable talking about it (new). It feels as if she has gotten to the point that sex is icky, so why would she want to imporve it. I know its driving her nuts too, and is messing with her self esteem.

The rest of our relationship is great (as can be with two little ones 3 and under).

Any advice? Suggestions?

[Synnen]

Yes.

SHE needs to see a counselor, SOLO, in addition to the two of you seeing a licensed sex therapist together.

SOMETHING from her past is haunting her, and she needs to fix that on her own.

[Wondergirl]

What do you mean you haven't been able to find a good counselor? Like Judy said, your wife should have one of her own and get the mental block broken up first.

[ELTINADR]

We both agree, but none of the counselors we have spoken to will address her concerns without me... its like we went in and said our piece and we got shunted to the "marital relationship slot". Ironically all the counselors said they could help, they all said it would be a 10 sessions each program. Its like they have a little handbook that sorts you into.. counsel slot A. We have been attempting to find one that will deal separatley with the issues. We know there are issues from her past that have a bearing on it, but they won't deal with them without entering into their little counseling course. We did start one but halfway through she started saying things that indicated a complete reversal of the situation (she thought I was the one with embarrassment issues) which showed she had not been listening.

So yea.. bad track record with counseors. Looked online for ones with good reviews, but as soon as we mention the issue we get pidgon holed, and there are issues I am sure my wife would rather not discuss with too many people in the room.

[backpack2389]

The source of her perception of sex as "icky" might be something to try and discover/understand. Perhaps if she can see what's causing her extreme view of sex and if she can see how her perpective is not quite normal, then she could work on changing her attitude.
I'm assuming it's the physical aspects of sex, not the mental or emotional that stirs bad feelings in your wife. Based on that I suggest that during sex, both of you try focusing on the bonding, on the affectionate and loving aspects rather than the physical. Maybe try more foreplay during which you verbally express how deep you affection is for her. Highlight the purely positive, nonphysical, "nonshameful" aspects of sex (the ways it strengthens your relationship) and her perspective might begin to change. Maybe just try incorporating physical displays of affection in places outside of the bedroom where it's not associated with sex to make intimate touching more about the love connection than the physical connection. Hopefully she could learn to associate sex with good feelings.

[Synnen]

What do you mean you haven't been able to find a good counselor? Like Judy said, your wife should have one of her own and get the mental block broken up first.

Psst... It's Synn, not Judy.

[Wondergirl]

I'm sorry about your bad experience with counselors so far. There ARE good ones out there. Phone interviews should help you cut to the chase and find one that will deal with her as an individual and either bring you into the mix eventually (that's how I would do it), or recommend a colleague to work with both of you eventually as a couple.

So what about whomping up a short list of interview questions (now that you know the pitfalls) and do some phone interviewing?

I believe in brief and focused therapy/counseling for certain things, but your wife's situation sounds kind of open ended as to how long it might take. Are these counselors new to the field?

[ELTINADR]

Yes.

SHE needs to see a counselor, SOLO, in addition to the two of you seeing a licensed sex therapist together.

SOMETHING from her past is haunting her, and she needs to fix that on her own.

We both agree but every time we go see a counselor and mentin the issue they pidgon hole us into a 10 session marriage counseling thing. Its like they all have the same little book. There are some issues from her past but the counselors won't allow her to deal with them separatley... they keep looking at me and doing the whole... "its a relationship issue, and we need both of you" they seem to think I am saying I'm perfect and she is not (which is not the case by any means) we just don't think we can deal with our sexuality as a couple until she has dealt with the issues individual to her. So yea, bad experience with counselors.

As for my wife's past, we have identified two main components. 1. and exseptionally overtly sexual mother (inappropriate behavior in front of my wife as a child, and loud sex with my wife in the next room) and 2. an incident where a neighbor boy touched her inappropriatley (nothing more than touching) when she was 6 and he was 8. She communicated that to her grandmother (who watched her during the day) and grandma ignored it. Of the two she seems much more affected by the Mother.

[Wondergirl]

Psst...It's Synn, not Judy.

I even said to myself, "Self, check before you use a name," but I didn't and blithely carried on. Judy has been on the same threads that I have been on lately (probably stalking me) and I know you are busy elsewhere. Mea culpa!

*note to self: always check who it was before typing a name*

[ELTINADR]

Thanks for the advice, we have done some of this, specifically the list of questions for potential counselors. However my wife is (obviously) embarrassed by all of this, so I do most of the calling, and am greeted with much skepticism. I have tried looking online, (specifically for counselors in sexual issues) and unfortunately there are not many in our area. I will keep looking for a good one though.

[Synnen]

Talk to your doctor for a recommendation--your wife talking to HER doctor would be ideal, but her issues would probably prevent her from doing so. Often family physicians have an inside track on counselors who are actually effective regarding specific issues.

[Wondergirl]

Are you looking around in a rural area or in and around a city? I'm sorry you are getting skeptical reactions. Any counselor worth his/her salt should be able to figure out there are two separate issues at work here--hers primarily which affects your marital situation.

I don't know how I can help you find someone other than what I have already said. Don't look only at counselors with doctorates; master's level counselors can be very good too. And maybe just find a good ol' counselor to start with, without the prerequisite of sexual difficulties. We're trained to handle stuff like that too, even if we don't specialize in it.